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crs1026 said:
Newbie Ottawa riders thought that they could force the doors to stop closing - or reopen - by brute force. Lots of people who didn't want to miss a train and tried to get on after the doors started to close.
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There's a fix for that. Doors that closed with gusto.


 
Since it bears repeating.....

The Crosstown will be operated by the TTC, not Metrolinx (or their contractor). For all of their problems, the TTC has lots and lots of experience opening and operating rapid transit lines.

When it is finally ready to open, it will run well. The problem is getting it to that point.

Dan
 
Admiral Beez said:
As they observed Ottawa’s experience, Metrolinx likely thought the O-Train was absolutely ready. But in addition to thirteen other faults, they’d not taken into account how the passengers would interact with the doors. There will be something on the Crosstown that Metrolinx has overlooked that causes a shutdown after a brief opening. This organization does not have a record of seeing the whole picture before acting.
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If those vehicles had door issues, KW would long ago have a) seen them and b) sorted them out.
 
rbt said:
It's hard to be aggressive at closing the doors without risking a non-trivial injury to some slow moving elderly or disabled person.
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This is true, but I will say that the TTC has really slowed down door closing on various vehicles over the years:

-The H6 subway trains had relatively quick door closing, the T1's close slower than the H6's, the TR's close even slower than the T1's.

-With the streetcars they slowed down the door closing speed with the Flexity's quite substantially compared to when they were first delivered.

But this is the TTC we're talking about, they're risk averse to virtually everything that might be involved in an accident so they'll slow down everything in the name of "safety".
 
Amare said:
But this is the TTC we're talking about, they're risk averse to virtually everything that might be involved in an accident so they'll slow down everything in the name of "safety".
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But keeping its riders safe from the dangerously insane or otherwise violent people loitering on its system? No worries.

As for the doors, it's so frustration when I'm onboard the streetcar and I'm mentally willing the doors to close so we can get going, but no, by the time they creep almost shut, somebody hits the door button and we're waiting some more.
 
Amare said:
This is true, but I will say that the TTC has really slowed down door closing on various vehicles over the years:

-The H6 subway trains had relatively quick door closing, the T1's close slower than the H6's, the TR's close even slower than the T1's.

-With the streetcars they slowed down the door closing speed with the Flexity's quite substantially compared to when they were first delivered.

But this is the TTC we're talking about, they're risk averse to virtually everything that might be involved in an accident so they'll slow down everything in the name of "safety".
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The official response is actually concerns from the accessibility community. I would personally argue that faster closer would actually be more accessible because it's more predictable what will happen once the chime sounds with minimal delay.
 
I was just in Granada, Spain and I observed with their tram as soon before it even approaches the intersection or roundabout, all the cars had to wait for it to cross. Priority was always given to the tram over the cars. It was pretty neat.

Knowing Toronto I doubt the surface section of the crosstown will work like this.
 
Admiral Beez said:
We might be referring back to this claim throughout the first 2-3 years after it opens.

That said, I hope you're right.
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When has the TTC opened a rapid transit line that didn't work, obviously notwithstanding the usual TTC issues?

The ones that I have been old enough to witness and remember - Downsview, TYSSE and Sheppard - all went off without a hitch service-wise. And I've never found evidence in any of the older ones to indicate anything so problematic as to require service stoppages the likes that Ottawa has been dealing with.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
When has the TTC opened a rapid transit line that didn't work, obviously notwithstanding the usual TTC issues?

The ones that I have been old enough to witness and remember - Downsview, TYSSE and Sheppard - all went off without a hitch service-wise. And I've never found evidence in any of the older ones to indicate anything so problematic as to require service stoppages the likes that Ottawa has been dealing with.

Dan
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The good side (if there is one) to all the delay is that the testing and burn-in period for this transit line is lengthy and no doubt beyond what might happen in a "rushed" implementation. And the benefit of the P3 contract and assorted disputes is that ML will have no illusions about what the contractor will be willing to do (or not) as warranty work or post-opening finishing work. So while the whole thing is a debacle, I have very high confidence that ML will have chased down every last bit of deficiency correction before opening the doors.
The bigger question we should be monitoring is - did the engineering and construction solution to the original showstopper at Yonge actually work? If that proved to have been inadequate - we would have a huge problem, maybe a decade or more to resolve. Let's hope we are past that one.

- Paul
 
smallspy said:
When has the TTC opened a rapid transit line that didn't work, obviously notwithstanding the usual TTC issues?
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Pretty sure the SRT had issues from day one.

See the "problems develop" section of this page:

smallspy said:
The ones that I have been old enough to witness and remember - Downsview, TYSSE and Sheppard - all went off without a hitch service-wise. And I've never found evidence in any of the older ones to indicate anything so problematic as to require service stoppages the likes that Ottawa has been dealing with.
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The SRT was closed down for three months less than three years after it opened to rebuild platforms and the Kennedy Station turning loop
 
crs1026 said:
The good side (if there is one) to all the delay is that the testing and burn-in period for this transit line is lengthy and no doubt beyond what might happen in a "rushed" implementation. And the benefit of the P3 contract and assorted disputes is that ML will have no illusions about what the contractor will be willing to do (or not) as warranty work or post-opening finishing work. So while the whole thing is a debacle, I have very high confidence that ML will have chased down every last bit of deficiency correction before opening the doors.
The bigger question we should be monitoring is - did the engineering and construction solution to the original showstopper at Yonge actually work? If that proved to have been inadequate - we would have a huge problem, maybe a decade or more to resolve. Let's hope we are past that one.

- Paul
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Do we know what the showstopper is was?
 
beatle04 said:
Do we know what the showstopper is was?
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iirc it was structural deterioration of the existing Line 1 tunnel box that needed to be addressed before underpinning could be performed.

edit: I sincerely hope (considering how long it took to resolve this) that the engineering evaluation took reasonable precaution to more thoroughly assess the condition of the Line 1 station box before underpinning and closing it up. There was a really tight tolerance for movement at the line 1 track level (we're talking a few mm - ML phrased it as the width of a grain of rice). So I can understand why this added so much time
 
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