Therion

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Is it just me or do projects in Mississauga move 10x faster than in Toronto? We first heard about this project 2 months ago and it's already in marketing! M City seems to be moving at lightning speed too.

Developers I know are extremely frustrated with Planning, and consider it actively hostile to development. According to hearsay, several have essentially decamped to the 905 permanently. They are finding city staff there much more friendly and open to discussion on new buildings, height and density.
 

TheKingEast

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Is it just me or do projects in Mississauga move 10x faster than in Toronto? We first heard about this project 2 months ago and it's already in marketing! M City seems to be moving at lightning speed too.

Maybe less red tape and hoop jumping? Less NIMBYism? S lot of times they’re building on empty lots. No demo required, no traffic, no tight spaces, etc. Just my guess.

I think MCC is going to look great in the next 15 or so years.
 

innsertnamehere

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A lot has to do with a less transparent planning process too. Some applications sit for several months after a submission without being picked up publicly. UT meanwhile has a front page story the minute a project is filed in Toronto.


It's important to note as well that this development isn't exactly approved - Camrost is simply launching sales very early in the process.
 

Edward Skira

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UT meanwhile has a front page story the minute a project is filed in Toronto.

And that has to do with the fact that the City of Toronto has a website where we can find the info. Good luck for something similar in Mississauga.
 

innsertnamehere

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Mississauga has a development map, but only posts a few sentences about a project, no supporting documents, and you cannot filter by new. A lot of other GTA municipalities have the mapping systems of some sort tracking new development, just none as useful as Toronto's. Vaughan, Oakville, and Burlington also all have them of some varying form. I'm sure there are more. It's really a shame - toronto's development portal has brought an unprecedented level of public access to the process. It makes me wish that they would sell the platform to other municipalities.
 

kweku

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Maybe less red tape and hoop jumping? Less NIMBYism? S lot of times they’re building on empty lots. No demo required, no traffic, no tight spaces, etc. Just my guess.

I think MCC is going to look great in the next 15 or so years.

You are definitely right, Mississauga downtown will end up with more world class landmark buildings than Toronto waterfront in the next 20 years.
Do anyone also realize that Mississauga's bold projects never get re-designed to lesser aesthetics or watered down like Toronto's
 

Jasonzed

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Lachlan Holmes

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We will agree to disagree, but the city core did, does have maximum heights and densities requirement as well non strict parking ratio. The last few years, the city has started to move away from these low height and density requirement and it started with M City. Anything over 40s was taken behind closed doors and told it not going to happen. Parking was to be 1:1, but was increase to 1.25:1 and that was a running joke at council. It was stated time after time that on move in date, not 1 car show up, but as many as 4, with the other 3 looking for a place to be park. When Developers wanted to reduced parking ratio, they were told no. With the coming of the LRT, parking ratio is falling now.

Since council is the Planning and Development committee comprised of all councilors, less hoops to jump through to get approval and faster in the ground if the developer do move forward with them. There are a lot of approved projects in the city core and elsewhere but haven't gone any further than that, except for a few.

There is no Downtown Mississauga and the closes you can get to it is Hurontario and Dundas. Even that area has had so many approvals, but gone no where.

When one looks at M City and Parkside Village, its night and day between these sites. Parkside Village is an example where Height and Density is lower because of Council. Same can be said for Pinnacle Uptown project.

It took until 2005 to get a building over 39s, Took another 12 years to get a building over 50/56s. Both Parkside Village and Pinnacle Uptown will have 2 50s towers. Edge Towers will have 1 50s. Other than that, no other buildings plan over 50s other than this one.

Interesting! I’ll defer to you on this because I’m not totally versed in Mississauga planning history. Ultimately it’s intriguing to myself to see how cities change their planning methods over time...
 

Automation Gallery

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Do anyone also realize that Mississauga's bold projects never get re-designed to lesser aesthetics or watered down like Toronto's
I agree, i think one of the main reasons they get cheapened out here in Toronto is because the amount of time (approx. 2-5 years) that it takes to go through the city planning process at which time of approvals everything from materials, labour, etc. cost more...let alone the extra section 37 money on top of it most likely getting chopped.
 

drum118

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Interesting! I’ll defer to you on this because I’m not totally versed in Mississauga planning history. Ultimately it’s intriguing to myself to see how cities change their planning methods over time...
One only has to look at Parkside Village and Pinnacle Uptown to see how the city reduced the height and density for them. Parkside when though a number of changes to shifting density around the various blocks after approval was given to keep it within the approved guidelines for the site. Pinnacle site end up being haft the density asked for as well height of buildings.

City council talks the sky is the limit, yet is unwilling to fall through on it. Many times City Staff approves the density and the tall buildings only have council vote against them. City staff has told council they will loose at appeal level if they vote the project down and that has happen a number of times.

The city approved the Edge tower at 50s at Hurontario and Elm, yet reused a 40's building a block south at Hurontario and Central Parkway that has bee appeal to the OMB. The NIMBY folks in the 3 towers to the north of this site got their way for the rejection to allow the tower there since it would block their view.

The plan 35s building at Eloria Dr and Burnhamthorpe was opposed by council a few years ago as they wanted it to be 15s so the area between it and Duke of York would slop up to the tallest building there now. 40s is top height wise then. Now comes along M City with 2 towers at 60s and the 81s. That vision for the slope went out the window and the city was singing a new tune for height and density.

Even the Downtown 21 plan for the so call Downtown Mississauga plan only had vision for low density and short towers. City Council is its own worse enemy for density and tall towers, as well the NIMBY folks. Too many councilors with long teeth can't see the future of Mississauga.
 

Jasonzed

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Mike in TO

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You are definitely right, Mississauga downtown will end up with more world class landmark buildings than Toronto waterfront in the next 20 years.
Do anyone also realize that Mississauga's bold projects never get re-designed to lesser aesthetics or watered down like Toronto's

This is ridiculous.... just a list of some of the top international architects with active projects in Toronto right now:

  • Frank Gehry
  • Foster + Partners
  • Bjarke Ingels Group: BIG
  • Studio Gang
  • COBE Architects
  • WilkinsonEyre
  • Moshe Safdie
  • Kohn Pedersen Fox
  • Daniel Libeskind
  • Saucier + Perrote
  • Rogers Stirk Harbour (RSH)
  • Henriquez Partners

If anything - Toronto is really having a moment right now in terms of architectural global talent... there are very very few cities on the entire planet right now with this type of talent working right here, right now... and you are comparing that to what is happening in a suburb (yes the buildings are tall... but I'm talking about top global architectural talent).
 

Automation Gallery

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This is ridiculous.... just a list of some of the top international architects with active projects in Toronto right now:

  • Frank Gehry
  • Foster + Partners
  • Bjarke Ingels Group: BIG
  • Studio Gang
  • COBE Architects
  • WilkinsonEyre
  • Moshe Safdie
  • Kohn Pedersen Fox
  • Daniel Libeskind
  • Saucier + Perrote
  • Rogers Stirk Harbour (RSH)
  • Henriquez Partners
If anything - Toronto is really having a moment right now in terms of architectural global talent... there are very very few cities on the entire planet right now with this type of talent working right here, right now... and you are comparing that to what is happening in a suburb (yes the buildings are tall... but I'm talking about top global architectural talent).
Yup, you can also add 3XN and bKL to that list
 

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