[dt_toronto_geek]

However well (or poorly) maintained or restored, I think the few remaining clock towers around town, indicating old decommissioned fire halls, are noteworthy and important fixtures and should be protected at all costs. The one in question here was not very sensitively handled - though kudos for the attempt, but that's not to say it can't be treated better in the future. The former fire hall below is toast and has been for decades.

 

[adma]

And let's also keep in mind not just what it physically is, but the symbolism of its St. Charles past; i.e. the CLGA crowd would absolutely go to bat for its retention, whether in situ or even, if necessary, as a dismounted "folly". To the point where to just call it an obsolete and expendable old crock is like rubbing shoulders (inadvertently or not) with "anti-queer-agenda" yahoos...

 

[College Park]

And let's also keep in mind not just what it physically is, but the symbolism of its St. Charles past; i.e. the CLGA crowd would absolutely go to bat for its retention, whether in situ or even, if necessary, as a dismounted "folly". To the point where to just call it an obsolete and expendable old crock is like rubbing shoulders (inadvertently or not) with "anti-queer-agenda" yahoos...

Despite having arrived in Toronto after the club was closed, I was immediately informed via stories and media accounts of this tower's link to the past. The tower is a landmark - you don't need to dig very far in queer history or in archival photos to find it.

 

[QueerstoryApp]

And let's also keep in mind not just what it physically is, but the symbolism of its St. Charles past; i.e. the CLGA crowd would absolutely go to bat for its retention, whether in situ or even, if necessary, as a dismounted "folly". To the point where to just call it an obsolete and expendable old crock is like rubbing shoulders (inadvertently or not) with "anti-queer-agenda" yahoos...

The St. Charles is one of the featured points of interest in the Queerstory project.. a free interactive documentary app that maps Toronto's LGBTQ history:
http://www.queerstory.ca/project/st-charles-tavern/
other bars included in the tour are The Manatee, The Continental, The Letros, The King Edward, Chez Moi, The Municipal Tavern..
http://www.queerstory.ca

 

[buildup]

Lets stop calling the poor clock tower "Queer" or "Hetero". Its a clock-tower. While it's sort of kitschy (now 'calling it names) a bit of that on Yonge just adds to the lovable chaos of Yonge.

In my mind it's a "murderous" clock tower as a horrific homicide occurred under its watch 20 years ago. A tranny drug addict who stumbled out of the nightclub on St Joseph killed a female dentist (ok a few blocks North). Crazy queer murderous clock tower.

 

[jaborandi]

It also witnessed the annual mass homophobia and queer bashing that occurred every Hallowe'en as the police looked on approvingly. That is the tower in the centre of my avatar.

 

[buildup]

It also witnessed the annual mass homophobia and queer bashing that occurred every Hallowe'en as the police looked on approvingly. That is the tower in the centre of my avatar.

True, the city has advanced a long way. Its one reason I try to avoid judging other societies since we tend to forget our own recent past.

 

[Torontovibe]

It also witnessed the annual mass homophobia and queer bashing that occurred every Hallowe'en as the police looked on approvingly. That is the tower in the centre of my avatar.

My very first experience of anything gay was when I heard someone talk about a "Halloween Gay Parade" on Yonge Street, outside the St. Charles Tavern. I was about 14 years old and I went all by myself downtown to see it. I thought this was going to be a fun, festive event but what I saw scared the hell out of me and sent me hiding in my closet for the next 7 years. It was really hateful, beyond anything I could have imagined. The crowds were so mean and vicious. The police were around but they did nothing to stop the violence.

There was no parade at all, it was just a massive group of mainly guys, screaming at anybody who tried to go into the bar. Only a few guys were brave enough to try it but once they did, the eggs started flying and so did the hate. I remember one drag queen getting pelted with eggs, who slipped on the sidewalk and was covered with yokes flying from every direction. Some guy kicked her when she was down and the crowd cheered. It was dreadful. The smart people knew to sneak in the back door.

I think this freak show ended around the mid 80's because I remember going there for Halloween around then and there were no crowds waiting outside to assault homosexuals. It's so hard to believe something that evil took place in Toronto, considering how things are today.

 

[jaborandi]

My very first experience of anything gay was when I heard someone talk about a "Halloween Gay Parade" on Yonge Street, outside the St. Charles Tavern. I was about 14 years old and I went all by myself downtown to see it. I thought this was going to be a fun, festive event but what I saw scared the hell out of me and sent me hiding in my closet for the next 7 years. It was really hateful, beyond anything I could have imagined. The crowds were so mean and vicious. The police were around but they did nothing to stop the violence.

There was no parade at all, it was just a massive group of mainly guys, screaming at anybody who tried to go into the bar. Only a few guys were brave enough to try it but once they did, the eggs started flying and so did the hate. I remember one drag queen getting pelted with eggs, who slipped on the sidewalk and was covered with yokes flying from every direction. Some guy kicked her when she was down and the crowd cheered. It was dreadful. The smart people knew to sneak in the back door.

I think this freak show ended around the mid 80's because I remember going there for Halloween around then and there were no crowds waiting outside to assault homosexuals. It's so hard to believe something that evil took place in Toronto, considering how things are today.

It was certainly a hatefest. I think I witnessed it twice back around 1969/70. I kept wondering if the cops would have been so accommodating if it was taking place outside a synagogue or black church. It does boggle the mind how far and how quickly things advanced. That point was really brought home last night when I saw the Tide commercial with the gay male couple on TV.

 

[adma]

Lets stop calling the poor clock tower "Queer" or "Hetero". Its a clock-tower. While it's sort of kitschy (now 'calling it names) a bit of that on Yonge just adds to the lovable chaos of Yonge.

Uh, why can we not use that term? It isn't about its phallic form or its kitsch/camp qualities; it's about its genuine recent-times cultural role. It ain't just a simple, benign ex-fire-station clock tower. And if you find the word "queer" old-world objectionable, then you should object to the Queerstory link.

In my mind it's a "murderous" clock tower as a horrific homicide occurred under its watch 20 years ago. A tranny drug addict who stumbled out of the nightclub on St Joseph killed a female dentist (ok a few blocks North). Crazy queer murderous clock tower.

So? Murders happen. We're not talking about a Bernardo/Homolka-house case of a wound begging cleansing.

And if said tower's recent past is, for some of you, stigmatized by "the annual mass homophobia and queer bashing that occurred every Hallowe'en as the police looked on approvingly"--so what. It's still a powerful part of Toronto's queer history. You might as well be arguing that the Lorraine Motel should have been demolished after MLK's killing--or, to go further into racialized territory, you might as well be arguing that a whole lot of genuine Old South landmarks should be razed as symbols of institutionalized racism.

Don't whitewash the richness of recent history. The St. Charles tower? It's there. It's queer. Get used to it.

 

[stjames2queenwest]

It was certainly a hatefest. I think I witnessed it twice back around 1969/70. I kept wondering if the cops would have been so accommodating if it was taking place outside a synagogue or black church. It does boggle the mind how far and how quickly things advanced. That point was really brought home last night when I saw the Tide commercial with the gay male couple on TV.

That is scary. I am thankful to have never known that Toronto, I moved here to escape behavior like that in the small town I grew up in. Toronto always felt like a safe haven.

 

[jaborandi]

And if said tower's recent past is, for some of you, stigmatized by "the annual mass homophobia and queer bashing that occurred every Hallowe'en as the police looked on approvingly"--so what. It's still a powerful part of Toronto's queer history. You might as well be arguing that the Lorraine Motel should have been demolished after MLK's killing--or, to go further into racialized territory, you might as well be arguing that a whole lot of genuine Old South landmarks should be razed as symbols of institutionalized racism.

Witnessing is not quite the same as stigmatizing. I'm totally in favour of retaining and properly restoring the tower if only to remind myself of all those times I got totally gooned on a Friday night at the legendary Maytag Club below.

 

[buildup]

Uh, why can we not use that term? It isn't about its phallic form or its kitsch/camp qualities; it's about its genuine recent-times cultural role. It ain't just a simple, benign ex-fire-station clock tower. And if you find the word "queer" old-world objectionable, then you should object to the Queerstory link.

So? Murders happen. We're not talking about a Bernardo/Homolka-house case of a wound begging cleansing.

And if said tower's recent past is, for some of you, stigmatized by "the annual mass homophobia and queer bashing that occurred every Hallowe'en as the police looked on approvingly"--so what. It's still a powerful part of Toronto's queer history. You might as well be arguing that the Lorraine Motel should have been demolished after MLK's killing--or, to go further into racialized territory, you might as well be arguing that a whole lot of genuine Old South landmarks should be razed as symbols of institutionalized racism.

Don't whitewash the richness of recent history. The St. Charles tower? It's there. It's queer. Get used to it.

I'm sorry you didn't see the humour in my comment. We're being too serious. I love that queer and murderous Clock Tower!

 

[Torontovibe]

Uh, why can we not use that term? It isn't about its phallic form or its kitsch/camp qualities; it's about its genuine recent-times cultural role. It ain't just a simple, benign ex-fire-station clock tower. And if you find the word "queer" old-world objectionable, then you should object to the Queerstory link.



So? Murders happen. We're not talking about a Bernardo/Homolka-house case of a wound begging cleansing.

And if said tower's recent past is, for some of you, stigmatized by "the annual mass homophobia and queer bashing that occurred every Hallowe'en as the police looked on approvingly"--so what. It's still a powerful part of Toronto's queer history. You might as well be arguing that the Lorraine Motel should have been demolished after MLK's killing--or, to go further into racialized territory, you might as well be arguing that a whole lot of genuine Old South landmarks should be razed as symbols of institutionalized racism.

Don't whitewash the richness of recent history. The St. Charles tower? It's there. It's queer. Get used to it.

Was anybody suggesting that the clock tower should be torn down because there was gay bashing going on outside the St. Charles Tavern? I think it's quite the opposite. I bet most gay people would be the ones fighting to keep the tower. I know I would. Besides the history, I like the design and uniqueness of that tower. We need to save as many landmarks like that, as we can. (to contrast all the non-discript, glass boxes going up on Yonge)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

My very first experience of anything gay was when I heard someone talk about a "Halloween Gay Parade" on Yonge Street, outside the St. Charles Tavern. I was about 14 years old and I went all by myself downtown to see it. I thought this was going to be a fun, festive event but what I saw scared the hell out of me and sent me hiding in my closet for the next 7 years. It was really hateful, beyond anything I could have imagined. The crowds were so mean and vicious. The police were around but they did nothing to stop the violence.

There was no parade at all, it was just a massive group of mainly guys, screaming at anybody who tried to go into the bar. Only a few guys were brave enough to try it but once they did, the eggs started flying and so did the hate. I remember one drag queen getting pelted with eggs, who slipped on the sidewalk and was covered with yokes flying from every direction. Some guy kicked her when she was down and the crowd cheered. It was dreadful. The smart people knew to sneak in the back door.

It's amazing how much things have changed. The situation must have felt utterly hopeless for queer people back then.