ARG1

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
2,075
Reaction score
5,106
City:
Toronto
Eglinton West was to been elevated on the side of the road with flyover over major intersections along with a cycling trail beside it. That was before the Fords got the land sold off to their friendly developers.

Why is it that Europe has no issues running on the surface either in an ROW or mix traffic?? Most roads are single lanes in most cases.

Just think how much more of track can be built on the surface with the same amount of money putting the line underground for a shorter section as well having it up and running years before the tunnel is ready for use.

A lot of the board member are fix on speed considering most riders don't go from end to end in the first place. It to service the local and mid needs.

Tunnels are needed where surface area can't support the needs of an surface line in the first place or where there is a long distance between stops
I mostly agree, especially on the land use part and how the Ford's sold land that was prime for some elevated rapid transit.

However my point was that you can take literally any position and make it seem like it's being done for the benefit of car owners, like can we just move on from this strawman that we bury our transit because we want to appease some car owners who don't want to see trams running on the street? If you want to make ridiculous points that call the opposing side pro car, we can literally sit here all day.
 

LemonCondo

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 29, 2022
Messages
305
Reaction score
389
I mostly agree, especially on the land use part and how the Ford's sold land that was prime for some elevated rapid transit.

However my point was that you can take literally any position and make it seem like it's being done for the benefit of car owners, like can we just move on from this strawman that we bury our transit because we want to appease some car owners who don't want to see trams running on the street? If you want to make ridiculous points that call the opposing side pro car, we can literally sit here all day.

Bellow Grade = Getting out of the way of cars, cost inefficient
At Grade = Must stop at intersections and can't go full speed, gives appearance of not prioritizing transit
Elevated = Takes lanes away like at-grade, not as expensive as bellow grade. Makes the statement that transit is important in the city

Elevated, the chad choice
😎
 

sixrings

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
5,106
Reaction score
2,461
Bellow Grade = Getting out of the way of cars, cost inefficient
At Grade = Must stop at intersections and can't go full speed, gives appearance of not prioritizing transit
Elevated = Takes lanes away like at-grade, not as expensive as bellow grade. Makes the statement that transit is important in the city

Elevated, the chad choice
😎
Since you love the euro and uk vibe. Can you please list all the elevated lrts that are so successful over there.
 

LemonCondo

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 29, 2022
Messages
305
Reaction score
389
Since you love the euro and uk vibe. Can you please list all the elevated lrts that are so successful over there.

Well alternatively just rail right-of-ways but we don't have many of those.

1662573294110.png
 

Mercury

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
41
Reaction score
59
Bellow Grade = Getting out of the way of cars, cost inefficient
At Grade = Must stop at intersections and can't go full speed, gives appearance of not prioritizing transit
Elevated = Takes lanes away like at-grade, not as expensive as bellow grade. Makes the statement that transit is important in the city

Elevated, the chad choice
😎

Dedicated ROW with priority signalling = Out of my way, four-wheeled plebs. True chad transit.
 

LemonCondo

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 29, 2022
Messages
305
Reaction score
389
Dedicated ROW with priority signalling = Out of my way, four-wheeled plebs. True chad transit.

No automation, so no high frequency off-peak or low operating costs due to no drivers. Staffing at the control centre need to be the same number regardless of how many trains are live in the network.
 

nfitz

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
25,257
Reaction score
5,947
City:
Toronto
These center median ROWs need a 1 metre fence between tracks from intersection to intersection, I find it so strange that they don't...
I don't see why. You can see the LRV coming from a long-distance. And it will be a lot safer crossing Eglinton than it is now. And no one proposes putting fences there now.

I'd expect cars will be a bigger issue than pedestrians.
 

sixrings

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
5,106
Reaction score
2,461
Well alternatively just rail right-of-ways but we don't have many of those.

View attachment 425400
If you want to defend burying eglinton west or canceling sheppard east after the success of st Clair west I am forever going to be confused why you’re making fun of Mississauga for not be as urban and hip as Toronto when you can’t see that St Clair was the most urban choice while sheppard and eglinton are the ones encouraging the car which you earlier made it sound like the enemy.

Anyways hurontario is going to be on the street. Is it going to be perfect. No. Almost nothing is perfect. Like you said Mississauga is going to need to have more lines. But we’re wasting all our resources elsewhere so that’s not going to happen. When I say we I am speaking of the province.
 
Last edited:

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
18,351
Reaction score
17,103
City:
Toronto
I don't see why. You can see the LRV coming from a long-distance. And it will be a lot safer crossing Eglinton than it is now. And no one proposes putting fences there now.

I'd expect cars will be a bigger issue than pedestrians.
Finch and Eglinton are similar to Spadina, St Clair and the QQW where you can easy cross and see on coming cars if you look. Same as a number of systems in Europe where the line in the centre of the road.

Hurontario is having flower beds between track to block mid block crossing.

As noted, cars will be the real issue for Finch and Eglinton.

One thing I noticed while in Europe, traffic stops 25-100 back of intersection and not allow to make right hand turns.
 

LemonCondo

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 29, 2022
Messages
305
Reaction score
389
If you want to defend burying eglinton west or canceling sheppard east after the success of st Clair west I am forever going to be confused why you’re making fun of Mississauga for not be as urban and hip as Toronto when you can’t see that at Clair was the most urban choice while sheppard and eglinton are the ones encouraging the car which you earlier made it sound like the enemy.

Anyways hurontario is going to be on the street. Is it going to be perfect. No. Almost nothing is perf cut. Like you said Mississauga is going to need to have more lines. But we’re wasting all our resources elsewhere so that’s not going to happen. When I say we I am speaking of the province.

Sixrings again has it out for me.

Never have I ever defended burying Eglinton West.
Never have I ever defended canceling Sheppard East (Although a Line 4 extension does make more sense to avoid a linear transfer.)

I keep going on about Elevated, which you fail to mention.

Guess what Mississauga has, massive fing roads, surely enough room for some elevated lines?
 

ARG1

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
2,075
Reaction score
5,106
City:
Toronto
If you want to defend burying eglinton west or canceling sheppard east after the success of st Clair west I am forever going to be confused why you’re making fun of Mississauga for not be as urban and hip as Toronto when you can’t see that St Clair was the most urban choice while sheppard and eglinton are the ones encouraging the car which you earlier made it sound like the enemy.

Anyways hurontario is going to be on the street. Is it going to be perfect. No. Almost nothing is perfect. Like you said Mississauga is going to need to have more lines. But we’re wasting all our resources elsewhere so that’s not going to happen. When I say we I am speaking of the province.
Success? You mean how the St. Clair Streetcar runs slower today than it did during the mixed traffic days? Wow, what a success!
 

ARG1

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
2,075
Reaction score
5,106
City:
Toronto
These center median ROWs need a 1 metre fence between tracks from intersection to intersection, I find it so strange that they don't...
Because the planners who were in the forefront for fighting were fighting for a mode that let them built complete streets, which prioritized aesthetics over functionality. Meter high fences are functional, not aesthetic, and thus aren't allowed. There are so many things we can do to improve at grade LRTs such as grade separating stations at key intersections or installing boom gates for stronger priority, but we don't do that because grade separations are ugly, and boom gates are noisy.
 

Top