urb@ndweller

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Greenland has sold the Qube Hotel at their other Toronto development, King-Blue (confirmed closing November 2021). I suspect this has to do with financial issues similar to Evergreen. I would not be surprised if this project is shopped to a competing developer very soon.
 

Bjays92

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Of note, 4 chinese developers are now defaulting on payments, Evergrande, Fantasia, Sinic Holdings, and Modern Land. This is a major issue with major real world consequences, particularly for non Chinese investors.

Here's to hoping Concord isn't the one who tries to gobble this up.
 

UrbanLurker

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Of note, 4 chinese developers are now defaulting on payments, Evergrande, Fantasia, Sinic Holdings, and Modern Land. This is a major issue with major real world consequences, particularly for non Chinese investors.

Here's to hoping Concord isn't the one who tries to gobble this up.

All the developers who are defaulting are 民营 or non state-owned. Greenland is partially state-owned by the Chinese government so I wouldn't worry at this point, not yet at least. They are indeed selling their hotel projects (not just in Canada, but in Australia as well) to ease their quick ratio to comply with new government requirement, but this doesn't concern residential projects. Do expect delay though. Greenland is already in much better shape now than back in 2018.
 

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AlbertC

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Debt-rating agency S&P downgrades two Chinese developers with projects under way in Canada


Oct 15, 2021


Two Chinese property companies with major Canadian condominium projects under development were hit with another credit downgrade this week, a sign of their weakening financial position amid China’s property-market downturn.

S&P Global Ratings cut Greenland Holdings Group’s credit to a B+ speculative rating from BB, meaning the developer is more vulnerable to adverse business, financial and economic conditions but currently has the capacity to meet financial obligations.

“The negative outlook on Greenland reflects our expectation that the company’s cash could continue to deplete over the next 12 months due to weaker sales and cash collection,” S&P said in a note accompanying the downgrade.

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S&P said the developer is facing a harder time raising capital and that will limit its ability to weather the industry downcycle that has been exacerbated by developer Evergrande Group’s US$300-billion debt problem.

In September, Moody’s Investors Service revised its outlook on Greenland to negative from stable, and said the company will “face uncertainty in issuing new offshore bonds at reasonable costs to refinance its maturing debt over the next 6-12 months.”

 

TheSix

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Someone's in trouble.....

Greenland Holding
Preceding Friday’s downgrades, S&P on Thursday downgraded Greenland Holding — one of the bigger real estate developers which has prestigious properties in cities such as New York, London and Sydney. It also cited its “impaired” funding access, which will limit its ability to weather the downturn in the property industry. Fitch said it expects the firm’s ability to generate cash to slow.

“Greenland’s bond prices have deteriorated sharply again following wider investor concerns over the sector,” Fitch wrote. “A prolonged weakness in bond prices may hit the confidence of the company’s borrowers, suppliers, and purchasers.”
 

UrbanLurker

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Welp, I can admit when I'm wrong. This is very bad news for this project. Plus I heard


1. Shanghai Municipal Investment Group is still looking to sell their current stake in Greenland.


2. Greenland has not defaulted on their September bond but has defaulted on their commercial acceptance bills to trade partners and suppliers in mainland.


3. Greenland has not issued new USD bond since January and now after downgrade it's even less likely that they can obtain USD financing, their oversea projects will be strapped for cash.


4. Previous talks on finding a strategic investor (as per my previous post now deleted) didn't go successfully


5. I heard similar Chinese real estate firm's oversea borrowing cost could now be as high as 11-12% or even more (take it with grain of salt). This is unsustainable.


So yeah… and I bought a unit here so I'm biased and really hope this project can survive this whole crisis…
 

Bjays92

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Welp, I can admit when I'm wrong. This is very bad news for this project. Plus I heard


1. Shanghai Municipal Investment Group is still looking to sell their current stake in Greenland.


2. Greenland has not defaulted on their September bond but has defaulted on their commercial acceptance bills to trade partners and suppliers in mainland.


3. Greenland has not issued new USD bond since January and now after downgrade it's even less likely that they can obtain USD financing, their oversea projects will be strapped for cash.


4. Previous talks on finding a strategic investor (as per my previous post now deleted) didn't go successfully


5. I heard similar Chinese real estate firm's oversea borrowing cost could now be as high as 11-12% or even more (take it with grain of salt). This is unsustainable.


So yeah… and I bought a unit here so I'm biased and really hope this project can survive this whole crisis…
I appreciate the humility. You also have far more information than I had but as this post points out many major Chinese real estate and development giants are horribly struggling. The biggest issue is I've heard the Chinese government only plans on bailing out investors within China, which means any overseas debt is basically just lost money.

The government may still bail out Greenland but I doubt they'll offer any help for their international portfolio.

I'm sorry to hear you bought I unit here. It's often easy for us forum members to forget this is much more than just a nice looking waterfront building getting cancelled it has a real world impact that affects many individuals. Hopefully something works out here.
 

Obsidian

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Thank god we have Concord to buy out these sites than let them sit empty or as a hole in the ground.
It seems like they know how to get all their projects finish
 
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