[evandyk]

This forum hates to hear it, but families with young kids NEED parking. It's just misery to try and get to somewhere without it. Yes it can be done, but my goodness it's barely worth it by the time you get there.

I have a young kid and we use our car less than weekly. I prefer taking transit or biking (though I don't really bike when it's less than about 5 degrees, except for really short trips) than sitting in traffic. Traffic is misery to me.

The problem is when they don't put either parking or transit, which is why all of us here are always going on about building this streetcar. If they did that, a lot more families could visit easily than can be accommodated with streets and parking.

 

[AlexBozikovic]

Now when they specifically say “streets” does that always mean cars? Because that’s what I’m hearing. If you don’t have streets for cars then your neighbourhood will become a slum like Regent Park 1.0, a statement which seems ridiculous.

It's more like, "If you don't have streets for cars everywhere, the neighbourhood won't function," which I have been told explicitly by people involved in the project. And in Toronto right now, a new public street means a street with cars, without exception.

For the record this island is 39ha, including the parks, which is the right way to think about it, and is planned to have ~15,000 people. If it's built as planned, the public realm is going to feel very empty and retail is not going to do well, if ever, until the whole neigjbourhood is built.

 

[Northern Light]

For the record this island is 39ha, including the parks, which is the right way to think about it,

For the record, this is not the way to think about it.

and is planned to have ~15,000 people. If it's built as planned, the public realm is going to feel very empty and retail is not going to do well, if ever, until the whole neigjbourhood is built.

That certainly is possible, for reasons discussed above, but its really dependent on the development and phasing of adjacent lands.

See the new fantasy proposal for the Hearn that's out this morning.

Based on infrastructure that doesn't exist, requires vast public subsidies, and land swaps...........

And even has the nerve to suggest elementary aged kids (who theoretically might live in this fantasy community) should take the (not yet existing Broadview LRT up to Queen Alexandra Elementary to go to school, a mere 2.2km away. LOL While High School aged kids will apparently go to Riverdale Collegiate, some 4km+ away with no obvious way to reach same by transit.

 

[hawc]

Why are school's always a total after-thought with these large developments? We force developers to build parks with their projects but not schools? How can the city allow 15,000 new people but no school? Not saying developer should build and run the school. Obviously that's TDSB's job, but why isn't this part of the project's approval stage??? You see signs with every new development downtown that say, "ATTENTION YOUR KIDS WILL HAVE NO SCHOOL IF YOU BUY HERE" that's nuts.

 

[evandyk]

The main problem is that the city approves developments (even, in some cases, asking for space to be reserved for schools) but the province builds schools. And for some reason, they don’t get together and talk about coordinating to solve the problem. It’s so stupid.

 

[evandyk]

There is space reserved for a school in the canary district. Last I read, I think it was going to be oversubscribed shortly after opening. Then the province took the land for staging for the Ontario line, so it won’t be built for a bunch more years.

 

[Northern Light]

Why are school's always a total after-thought with these large developments? We force developers to build parks with their projects but not schools? How can the city allow 15,000 new people but no school? Not saying developer should build and run the school. Obviously that's TDSB's job, but why isn't this part of the project's approval stage??? You see signs with every new development downtown that say, "ATTENTION YOUR KIDS WILL HAVE NO SCHOOL IF YOU BUY HERE" that's nuts.

The main problem is that the city approves developments (even, in some cases, asking for space to be reserved for schools) but the province builds schools. And for some reason, they don’t get together and talk about coordinating to solve the problem. It’s so stupid.

Specifically, the City has no authority to require that a new school be built and no means by which to fund its construction.

 

[stevedean]

Be careful folks - the Mods will shut this down because its too off topic ... god help us if we have a discussion slightly off topic here...

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

Now when they specifically say “streets” does that always mean cars? Because that’s what I’m hearing. If you don’t have streets for cars then your neighbourhood will become a slum like Regent Park 1.0, a statement which seems ridiculous.

t's more like, "If you don't have streets for cars everywhere, the neighbourhood won't function," which I have been told explicitly by people involved in the project. And in Toronto right now, a new public street means a street with cars, without exception.

Just so you know, FYI...

Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

....I also heard an anecdotal claim today about loosing weight on a diet of Twinkies and McDonald's hamburgers.

 

[Tyrang]

True.


True.



Lets define spacial qualities...... but sure I'll take the position that super blocks are inherently bad.



Not true. The facts are completely inconsistent with this statement.



Also not true. Aside from the fact there will be far less parking than households, so a number of households will be active transportation/public transport dependent, there is remarkably little car access in/out of Villiers and if everyone tried to use it as rush hour there would be endless gridlock.



There will be no shortage of people based on existing proposals.

****

There are flaws w/the Villiers plans, I agree some ROWs could be tightened and some street parking removed. I'd like shorter streetwalls in many locations as well.

The area is more car-centric as conceived than I would like, but that was the result of a choice not to serve it with higher-order transit (the LRT is not and will not be a subway substitute)

In order for the area to succeed commercially, it can't be isolated. For that to be true, the build-out of Queen's Quay East must occur before any development at Villiers, and Quayside and other proposals must arrived prior as well, animating Queen's Quay, and providing retail and other services.

Likewise, Cherry and Broadview and the key N-S connections, though the latter will be east of Villiers.

These need to be in place, with LRT and be at least partially, if not fully built out, before Villiers.

That means Villiers doesn't start residential build-out before the mid 2030s as things stand, and maybe later.

This is the problem of endless plans in lieu of substance, and people demanding every more re-writes of plans, rather than getting them right the first time, and beginning implementation.

****

There is no real corollary here to the original Regent Park which was entirely low-income, rent-geared-to-income housing, with an entirely inward-facing design that naturally excluded outsiders.

Villiers, as currently conceived will not be that.

There is an allusion to be made to St. Jamestown, however. This area will be even more dense than St. Jamestown, which is a problem, it will be somewhat cut-off from the outside, as St.Jamestown was, particularly on an E-W basis, in the former's case. But also, St. Jamestown was built as mixed income, but not mixed tenure, and private landlords quickly allowed the community to be beset by neglect.

A mixed tenure model reduces, but does not eliminate said risk.

Very much so agree with @Northern Light here. And want to add that beside Quayside and Parliament Slip being built out, there are also the 3C and the Red Brick Promenade.

@AlexBozikovic I think the planning has been done largely really well in terms of attracting the visitor flow, if you zoom out and look at the bigger alignment by the city and Waterfront.

If you zoom out and look at what is being built, all of these projects create a circular walk-flow for locals and tourist, from St.Lawrence Market, to Distillery, down to Quayside and lake front, all the way to Villiers Island. If everything worked out as plan, I can see this area turn into a Well-type focal point of the city.

 

[christiesplits]

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Stunning photos. Thank you for sharing!