[Neil]

That is why I am pushing for standard gauge, as well double deck cars for the DRL. There is to be a branch line off the DRL that will connect to the RHL at Lawrence Ave. Having a 8/10 double deck EMU train will handle future ridership load a lot better than single level cars. They will not be like GO DD cars.

Standard gauge yes. I don't see why DD cars would be required if frequency was in the 2-5 minute range. Dual pickup mode would be another useful feature. 3rd rail in the tunnels, pantograph in the RH corridor.

How about the west? My preference is under King to Dufferin and then swing up to join the western side of the Georgetown line, obviously replacing UP. I would put the TBM launch site here: http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.649072,-79.44234&spn=0.001512,0.001993&t=h&z=19

 

[Dan416]

While I agree Miller was partly to blame for Transit City being built instead of the DRL, the blame has to go back further than that. There is still no finalized route for the DRL. Maybe if there had been it, it would have been funded, who knows. I'd sacrifice all of Transit City for the DRL. But the most important part of TC is under construction now (Eglinton) and I think it's current form could be successful, though it should have gone to the airport.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

While I agree Miller was partly to blame for Transit City being built instead of the DRL, the blame has to go back further than that. There is still no finalized route for the DRL. Maybe if there had been it, it would have been funded, who knows. I'd sacrifice all of Transit City for the DRL. But the most important part of TC is under construction now (Eglinton) and I think it's current form could be successful, though it should have gone to the airport.

This is Toronto being lazy above all else. Let's be honest, the Eglinton should have been built with the Scarborough Malvern LRT in one shot. Even if it was more expensive most would have supported it.

 

[ShonTron]

While I agree Miller was partly to blame for Transit City being built instead of the DRL, the blame has to go back further than that. There is still no finalized route for the DRL. Maybe if there had been it, it would have been funded, who knows. I'd sacrifice all of Transit City for the DRL. But the most important part of TC is under construction now (Eglinton) and I think it's current form could be successful, though it should have gone to the airport.

Exactly. We can blame Metro and the suburban politicans for pushing for Eglinton West, Sheppard East, Bloor West and SRT-Malvern as the four priority projects back in the late 1980s and early 1990s (the old City of Toronto was go get only the Spadina streetcar out that arrangement), though back then even some downtown politicians didn't want to encourage downtown development that a DRL would help to attract; but the downtown development did happen without it, and now we need it more than ever.

We can blame the Rae government for agreeing to fund (though cut-back) Metro's Let's Move Plan, but it would have got Sheppard and Eglinton started. We can also blame Harris for slashing provincial funding that helped to fund transit, contributing to the downward spiral of service cuts, higher fares and lost ridership (which diminished the need for a DRL).

And yes, we can blame Miller and Giambrone for a half-baked Transit City plan (well intended, but flawed), which started about the time ridership picked up and Yonge Line became crush-loaded again.

Thankfully the momentum for the DRL is at is highest. Even the Fords aren't ignoring it (but still pressing with the elusive Sheppard extension)

 

[gweed123]

Exactly. We can blame Metro and the suburban politicans for pushing for Eglinton West, Sheppard East, Bloor West and SRT-Malvern as the four priority projects back in the late 1980s and early 1990s (the old City of Toronto was go get only the Spadina streetcar out that arrangement), though back then even some downtown politicians didn't want to encourage downtown development that a DRL would help to attract; but the downtown development did happen without it, and now we need it more than ever.

We can blame the Rae government for agreeing to fund (though cut-back) Metro's Let's Move Plan, but it would have got Sheppard and Eglinton started. We can also blame Harris for slashing provincial funding that helped to fund transit, contributing to the downward spiral of service cuts, higher fares and lost ridership (which diminished the need for a DRL).

And yes, we can blame Miller and Giambrone for a half-baked Transit City plan (well intended, but flawed), which started about the time ridership picked up and Yonge Line became crush-loaded again.

Thankfully the momentum for the DRL is at is highest. Even the Fords aren't ignoring it (but still pressing with the elusive Sheppard extension)

Agreed. Although the big question at this point is if anything about the DRL comes up in council, will Ford and his allies support it, or will they reject it because it isn't a subway in Scarborough? I'd like to believe Ford wouldn't be that petty, but I don't know.

But yes, momentum for the DRL certainly seems to be increasing. When I first started posting on UT, it was primarily a fantasy for transit geeks and the occasional fringe politician. Now it has pretty mainstream support.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Agreed. Although the big question at this point is if anything about the DRL comes up in council, will Ford and his allies support it, or will they reject it because it isn't a subway in Scarborough? I'd like to believe Ford wouldn't be that petty, but I don't know.

But yes, momentum for the DRL certainly seems to be increasing. When I first started posting on UT, it was primarily a fantasy for transit geeks and the occasional fringe politician. Now it has pretty mainstream support.

Ford would lose by rejecting any kind of subway. That won't fly in the old city, east york and north york.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

ShonTron:

Exactly. We can blame Metro and the suburban politicans for pushing for Eglinton West, Sheppard East, Bloor West and SRT-Malvern as the four priority projects back in the late 1980s and early 1990s (the old City of Toronto was go get only the Spadina streetcar out that arrangement), though back then even some downtown politicians didn't want to encourage downtown development that a DRL would help to attract; but the downtown development did happen without it, and now we need it more than ever.

It goes further back than even that - it was part and parcel of the decentralization/multi-centre scheme - and the roots of that started in the 1976 Metroplan, which of course grew from even older issues.

We can blame the Rae government for agreeing to fund (though cut-back) Metro's Let's Move Plan, but it would have got Sheppard and Eglinton started. We can also blame Harris for slashing provincial funding that helped to fund transit, contributing to the downward spiral of service cuts, higher fares and lost ridership (which diminished the need for a DRL).

If I remembered correctly, Metro was unwilling to pony up some of the dough and at the end only Sheppard and Eglinton made it - and one of the casualties was the Yonge loop.

And yes, we can blame Miller and Giambrone for a half-baked Transit City plan (well intended, but flawed), which started about the time ridership picked up and Yonge Line became crush-loaded again.

It was an utter lack of nerve on their part frankly. At that time there is pretty much no political support for DRL from any side, even though the issues were looming. Even now I still think there is a lot of belief that the TR/ATC will somehow provide a miraculous capacity bump, while neglecting that the stations themselves (and delays in boarding) may prove to be the Achilles' Heel of the system.

gweed:

Agreed. Although the big question at this point is if anything about the DRL comes up in council, will Ford and his allies support it, or will they reject it because it isn't a subway in Scarborough? I'd like to believe Ford wouldn't be that petty, but I don't know

I don't think there is much of a choice at this point - the writing that is the Yonge trainwreck is on the wall and this time it is probably here to stay (unlike the late 80s). Utterly congested platforms (or worse, should an accident happen - Yonge/Bloor is begging for it) make for a bad news story, regardless of where one's ward is.

AoD

 

[Dan416]

I'm not overly familiar with Yonge line congestion outside of Bloor-Yonge, but if it's really that bad, they better build the DRL pretty far up north to siphon off as many riders from Yonge as possible.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'm not overly familiar with Yonge line congestion outside of Bloor-Yonge, but if it's really that bad, they better build the DRL pretty far up north to siphon off as many riders from Yonge as possible.

Drum 118 has been suggesting this for a while now. I don't know why this idea has never been considered before. A huge amount of riders from Scarborough and North York would have their trips shifted from Yonge to the DRL if it went up to Sheppard, Steeles or even as far as Highway 7. It would probably be more effective at lowering ridership on Yonge than the western DRL would be.

 

[Jaye101]

It's not only Yonge-Bloor that is at capacity in this city. The Western leg of the DRL is needed to relieve congestion due to new construction in the west end of the old city. The King and Queen car needs to be relieved as well. The entire portion south of Bloor needs to be the #1 priority. As long as there is consistent funding available the eastern DRL doesn't have to be built to even Eglinton by opening, as long as it come online in the decade that follows everything will be fine, especially if a Bloor-Yonge rebuild is on the table.

However if we have the money it would be nice to see the first phase be from Eglinton to Dundas West.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The entire DRL from eglinton to dundas west is supposed to cost more than the entire transit city plan being built now.. I am just happy Metrolinx's plan is to fund dundas west to pape, which will not only provide great relief off of the Yonge line, but also much easier transport around the downtown core.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Eglinton to Roncesvalles along King would be better in one shot. With a Liberty Village connection at the rail corridor.

 

[BurlOak]

Drum 118 has been suggesting this for a while now. I don't know why this idea has never been considered before. A huge amount of riders from Scarborough and North York would have their trips shifted from Yonge to the DRL if it went up to Sheppard, Steeles or even as far as Highway 7. It would probably be more effective at lowering ridership on Yonge than the western DRL would be.

Drum is correct. The DRL report from last year clearly showed that even with the DRL going to Eglinton the number of transfers from Bloor to Yonge would go up significantly. The only saving grace was "improvements to the B-Y station that would increase capacity substantially to hold the demand to capacity close to what it is now. It was clear that somwthing else would have to be done but nothing was suggested. I think either having GO network better serve Toronto, and/or extending the DRL farther north (to siphon actual riders off the Yonge line and not just at the B-Y transfer) would be needed.

 

[gweed123]

Drum 118 has been suggesting this for a while now. I don't know why this idea has never been considered before. A huge amount of riders from Scarborough and North York would have their trips shifted from Yonge to the DRL if it went up to Sheppard, Steeles or even as far as Highway 7. It would probably be more effective at lowering ridership on Yonge than the western DRL would be.

That makes sense, considering that Toronto already has a DRL West. It's called the University-Spadina Subway. It's pretty effective at syphoning off riders before they reach Yonge, so it's reasonable to assume that a similar line in the east (although following established transit routes more than Spadina does) would do the same thing.

 

[Filip]

That makes sense, considering that Toronto already has a DRL West. It's called the University-Spadina Subway. It's pretty effective at syphoning off riders before they reach Yonge, so it's reasonable to assume that a similar line in the east (although following established transit routes more than Spadina does) would do the same thing.

It's not much of a relief if it's 500m from the Yonge line. A western relief would be around Dufferin, or Roncesvalles. The western edge of the city is drowning in a pathetic streetcar mess that needs relieving ASAP.