[Undead]

Ah yes, our old friend creative license strikes again

 

[W. K. Lis]

ATC is not always the same as an automated metro, especially in this case. These are driverless trains.

Automatic train control (ATC) are driverless trains. The same ATC as automated metro. Passengers still want an employee (call them guards, service representatives, tourist guide, etc.) on the trains.

 

[nfitz]

Not necessarily driverless. Montreal trains are ATC, but there is still a driver in the front, to press the button that closes the doors, etc.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Then what is the one that's actually on Eglinton?

I’d guess Finch.

My take is based mostly on the line above that having a job that makes it pretty clearly Hwy 7 Viva (despite being south of Downsview) and the Richmond Hill Go line having the slight kind of vertical misalignment for this where it turns east.

 

[ARG1]

Except that "tunnel everything as deep as we can" is exactly the approach that the province is taking with the Yonge extension to appease a few people. And they and the city seem to agree on the unnecessarily tunnelling of the Eglinton west extension. If making the hard decisions means standing up to NIMBYs and approving a cheaper alignment to get transit built, then the province is just as guilty of ducking the hard decisions as the city is.

Again though, the purpose of that tunneling is to then move it to the surface where there will be 2 stations along a railway corridor. I think what Metrolinx realized is even if Royal Orchard is 50m deep, it will still be cheaper than the original plan.

 

[Tuck]

Going to probably cross post this into the west extension thread- this Metrolinx ad had a rather peculiar transit map included in it with the orientation of the Ontario line, and something that looks to run along St. Clair, and something along Lawrence. Is anyone able to make sense of this? Could be just a random arrangement of lines as well.View attachment 375756

Cross posting:

Looks like they blew up their not to scale future transit map and overlaid it on a very much to scale 3D rendering of the city.

Which is pretty funny.

Wouldn't read too much into it. Cool idea for a graphic but done poorly.

Then what is the one that's actually on Eglinton?

Viva rapidway and 407 transitway.

 

[generalcanada]

and here we go again back to people thinking the drl was better.

i was too until i realized how much bigger and better it actually was.

- for the same price its almost twice as long going up to eglinton.
- automated light metro system which has similar capacity to the toronto line 1
- easy connections with queen and gerrard streetcars
- exhibition station (union station west)

now as for the Go trains, im not sure people realize that the service to bowmanville cant be anything more than 30 minute service even at peak. hell are they even doing off peak service?

So when i say "driverless" trains im talking vancouver skytrain or ttc line type metro where a driver isnt needed.

Thats in comparison to the ATC signaling. which by itself cant support driverless trains. but in conjunction with Platform screen doors can.

what im talking about is a system that by default doesnt need a driver.

 

[44 North]

Going to probably cross post this into the west extension thread- this Metrolinx ad had a rather peculiar transit map included in it with the orientation of the Ontario line, and something that looks to run along St. Clair, and something along Lawrence. Is anyone able to make sense of this? Could be just a random arrangement of lines as well.

Mmm. Big fan of oblique aerial imagery. Though am confounded with those yellow jigged lines, is it supposed to be Viva or something. Then the creativity with Line 1's placement.

 

[ARG1]

Mmm. Big fan of oblique aerial imagery. Though am confounded with those yellow jigged lines, is it supposed to be Viva or something. Then the creativity with Line 1's placement.

This is just an aerial version of the general Metrolinx plans map:

The top yellow line is Viva Orange (as you said), and the bottom Yellow Line is the Hwy 407 GO Bus corridor.

 

[11th]

This is just an aerial version of the general Metrolinx plans map:

The top yellow line is Viva Orange (as you said), and the bottom Yellow Line is the Hwy 407 GO Bus corridor.

The top two yellow lines are supposed to be Viva Orange and Highway 407, and the bottom yellow line the 401.
The map's been incorrectly overlaid - makes sense as the network map is not to scale.

 

[ARG1]

The top two yellow lines are supposed to be Viva Orange and Highway 407, and the bottom yellow line the 401.
The map's been incorrectly overlaid - makes sense as the network map is not to scale.

That's what I'm talking about, he was asking what the squigly lines were, and the top one is Viva, and the bottom is 407.

 

[Steve X]

This is just an aerial version of the general Metrolinx plans map:

The top yellow line is Viva Orange (as you said), and the bottom Yellow Line is the Hwy 407 GO Bus corridor.

It’s truly embarrassing that after a whole decade, I would say the UPX is the only ML initiated projects that got built. Everything else remains under construction or pre construction.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

and here we go again back to people thinking the drl was better.

i was too until i realized how much bigger and better it actually was.

- for the same price its almost twice as long going up to eglinton.
- automated light metro system which has similar capacity to the toronto line 1
- easy connections with queen and gerrard streetcars
- exhibition station (union station west)

now as for the Go trains, im not sure people realize that the service to bowmanville cant be anything more than 30 minute service even at peak. hell are they even doing off peak service?

What's the justification for Exhibition station if it's getting extra GO Service? No one lives there. The DRL had a better route, but that is the past. as long as we can get to the west and sheppard , that's what matters.

Rolling stock is an entire different matter.

I think, not only Bowmanville, but the northern end of the Stouffville line as well. They aren't electrifying Stouffville to the end, are they? So, doing something with the diesels and their noise is probably worth the effort.

Re. DRL vs OL:
- DRL could be automated, too.
- The ultimate capacity cannot be same if the stations and trains are substantially smaller.
- I didn't see any report that says the core portion of OL (University to Danforth) is going to be half the price on per-km basis compared to DRL. And if that's the case, it would be very surprising. OL has substantial tunnel sections through downtown and approaching Danforth. The portals add some to the cost. The route is slightly longer because it diverts to the south before turning north. Overall, I can believe that the core part of OL will be 15% or 20% cheaper than DRL, but it is hard to believe that the difference can reach 50%.
- The Danforth to Eglinton section is very useful, but it could be built as Phase 2, and in any case it would be cheaper per-km than the DRL's downtown tunnel.
- The Exhibition station, and the easier connections to some streetcar lines, are all nice-to-haves. But they are not essential, and are not worth creating a future situation where OL becomes overloaded, while DRL would still be within capacity.

The train has left the station, and there is no going back from OL to DRL. But, at least, let's have realistic expectations regarding the OL.

Totally agreed.

 

[leopetr]

What's the justification for Exhibition station if it's getting extra GO Service? No one lives there.

I believe the original justification for Exhibition station is one of those forced transfers like the one at Kennedy from the subway to the SRT. It's to allow GO to terminate some trains at Exhibition instead of Union and make the passengers take the Ontario line the rest of the way. Metrolinx is hedging its bets on Union Rail Corridor track capacity.

There's also a (badly concealed) desire to flip Exhibition land into a new mega-development, which I will admit is needed given our housing shortage and the inability to build anything in "stable neighbourhoods". Ontario line will allow commuters to escape the new Exhibition neighbourhood and hopefully get somewhere.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I believe the original justification for Exhibition station is one of those forced transfers like the one at Kennedy from the subway to the SRT. It's to allow GO to terminate some trains at Exhibition instead of Union and make the passengers take the Ontario line the rest of the way. Metrolinx is hedging its bets on Union Rail Corridor track capacity.

There's also a (badly concealed) desire to flip Exhibition land into a new mega-development, which I will admit is needed given our housing shortage and the inability to build anything in "stable neighbourhoods". Ontario line will allow commuters to escape the new Exhibition neighbourhood and hopefully get somewhere.

Broadly correct - I think the original scheme envisioned this happening at a new Spadina station. The extension to Exhibition while providing additional stations at Queen/Spadina and King/Bathurst is beneficial.

AoD