[nfitz]

Finch West reached financial close at the end of the last Liberal term ...

It had been, which is why I noted there was some serious hope. But there'd been no construction under this contract yet. Recall that the previous time that the PCs were elected they had cancelled the Eglinton West subway when it was further advanced than Finch West was, with construction started, and multiple contracts awarded. There wasn't much optimism here in 2018 that the project would still proceed.

Many of the projects you're crediting to the current provincial government are still unfunded, or were cancelled by them in their hyper-partisan tear-everything-down phase, only to be resurrected with a later completion date, i.e. the Hamilton LRT.

The eight major rapid transit projects under construction, or about to start (Line 1 extension and the Hamilton LRT) are all fully funded. As are the five RER projects and the Bloor-Yonge project. That's 14 major funded RT/RER projects in the $1 billion to $10 billion range each. I admit the other 2 big province-run projects (Line 4 extension and Line 5 from Renforth to Pearson) aren't yet fully funded (and hopefully the latter will cost less than $1 billion).

... a fair comparison would be limited to funded and under-construction projects.

Fair enough. How many were funded under the Liberals? It was less than 14. And they'd even managed to unfund Sheppard East LRT themselves!

I don't think including the line 4 and line 5 extensions was that much of a reach. There were many other reaches that one could have speculatively made, such as the Line 6 extensions to Woodbine Racetrack GO and Yonge - or even BRT projects and GO Expansion projects (such as the extension in the west to Confederation GO, and in the east to Bowmanville) which are in various states of approval and construction. Not to mention the myriad of new Toronto GO stations that are mostly (if not entirely) fully funded, such as Caledonia, Finch East, Spadina, Liberty, Lansdowne (or whatever they call it), East Harbour, etc.

Before I lived downtown, I used to live near "Gerrones" so the Carlaw OL station would have been great for me then. I don't doubt that the OL will have a major positive impact for many outside of the city, and with a station opening just 2 blocks from where I live, it will be useful to me too. But my point remains that it will hardly create the RT network that Toronto needs in its core, first and foremost, and that we should be working on this before an extension to Sheppard.

We should do both ... or all.

That was the problem with the old thinking for the last 20 years, is that we get one project funded and under construction, then think about the next. The approach of tackling many projects simultaneously is far more productive.

To reiterate my point, everyone is glad the OL is finally happening but our city's transit needs stable funding and a true non-partisan planning authority.

Yes it does. On the other hand, an independent non-partisan planning authority would never have moved as quickly, decisively, or boldly as the Doug Ford government putting it's boot up Metrolinx's tail.

 

[allengeorge]

It's a huge stretch to go from "they planned this" to "they are building this.

But it's in the plan - and if you already knew about the plan, and simply were being disingenuous, please stop.

It’s equally disingenuous to state that a visioning document (ie a bunch of lines on a map without business cases, funding, or basic engineering feasibility work) is a plan - but you do you.

I stand by my statement that all we’ll see in the next decade is the Eg W to Pearson and the Sheppard extension. The OL west extension won’t be built anytime soon, and if it does get dusted off, it’ll look very, very different.

 

[Sunnyside]

It’s equally disingenuous to state that a visioning document (ie a bunch of lines on a map without business cases, funding, or basic engineering feasibility work) is a plan - but you do you.

I stand by my statement that all we’ll see in the next decade is the Eg W to Pearson and the Sheppard extension. The OL west extension won’t be built anytime soon, and if it does get dusted off, it’ll look very, very different.

Important to note that no matter how preliminary, visionary, etc, most projects from the Big Move are either being built, considered, or acknowledged in newer plans. There's only so much you can change when the goal is simply a nice-looking line on a map of Jane st, for instance. The Ontario Line itself was a U, and always was, as the DRL; its new specificities and alignment are kind of moot to that initial premise.

Edit: I am fairly certain most of those lines on the maps also do have some preliminary business cases- if Hamilton's BLAST network is fully covered in Metrolinx documents, then so too are all of these significantly higher-priority corridors. You are probably right about the planned extensions, but that is why they are 'planned' and take priority; the OL west (namely to Line 2) isn't in any documents, so this is whole discussion about as fantastical as it gets. My argument would be that the alignment is just too big a can of worms for the PCs to open.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Oh baby:

View attachment 439673View attachment 439674View attachment 439675View attachment 439676View attachment 439677View attachment 439678

• The trains will be packed with the latest technology and feature onboard Wi-Fi, digital passenger information screens, charging points, dedicated spaces for bicycles, double wheelchair areas, and continuous, connected carriages.

If the Ontario Line stations will have platform (screen?) doors, will the interchange stations with Line 1 (Osgoode, Queen), Line 2 (Pape), and Line 5 (Science Centre) get platform (screen?) doors as well?

 

[toraerach]

That's always a concern, and will never be resolved perfectly. No matter what route is chosen, some residents will feel they got short-changed.

In case of the OL west extension, possibly it would be best not to swing the route south from Queen to the Exhibition, but rather send it north-west to meet the Bloor subway and then serve the area between Bloor and the Spadina subway route.

However, once it is settled that OL runs to the Exhibiton (far south), getting it back to the north of Bloor is a nontrivial task. Need to make a tricky transition from westbound at-surface to northbound tunneled, and then cover some distance in the tunnel.

Therefore, I feel that a new subway line from the north-west is better off going straight into downtown (under Dundas), rather than veering south all the way to Exhibition to link with the OL.

Agreed re: an additional Jane-Dundas line (perhaps veering down from around Regent Park to East Harbour).

If our goal is to better serve the West End, a short OL extension along the rail corridor with stops at Jameson and Sunnyside should be sufficient for the medium term.

 

[nfitz]

It’s equally disingenuous to state that a visioning document (ie a bunch of lines on a map without business cases, funding, or basic engineering feasibility work) is a plan - but you do you.

Referring to the "A Transportation Plan for the Greater Golden Horseshoe" as a plan is not disingenuous. The document (which is most certainly a visioning document) notes that it is a "sustainable, interconnected and resilient plan to provide a 30-year vision for mobility across the region".

Even the future expansion in a city's official plan is only a visioning document, and looking at one from 30 years ago, is always surprising in terms of what didn't happen. Is an official plan also not a plan?

I'm not sure why you are more focussed on the semantics of this, than the actual discussion. We all know that most long-term plans see massive change and delay before something comes to fruition.

At the same time, I'm surprised that there's that much doubt that the Ontario Line will see a northward extension in the next 30 years.

 

[TossYourJacket]

If the Ontario Line stations will have platform (screen?) doors, will the interchange stations with Line 1 (Osgoode, Queen), Line 2 (Pape), and Line 5 (Science Centre) get platform (screen?) doors as well?

I'm gonna say it's unlikely any of those are within the scope of the OL project. For Line 1 and 2, those stations remain owned by the TTC, so it's unlikely MX is going to pay for the work needed to retrofit those platforms to allow for PSDs, unless they're doing something as significant like moving the entire platform (as they're doing at Eglinton for the Line 5 connection, although that also does not have PSDs), and given we have no indication of that for any of those stations, I doubt MX intends to touch the existing platforms beyond whatever retrofits are needed in terms of access points. As for Science Centre, given the OL stop is above the bus terminal, MX has zero reason to even touch the Line 5 platform, no chance they'll install PSDs there within the scope of the OL.

All these stations could eventually see PSDs somehow, but I'd say it's highly unlikely it's within the scope of the OL project to do so. More likely is the TTC doing it themselves at the Line 1 and 2 transfer stations, but given how slow the TTC has moved on PSDs so far, I'd be surprised if it happens before the OL opens.

 

[Toronto Rocks]

It most likely will take us close to 15 years to build a straight line across Egliniton, how comfortable are in believing the Ontario line will be done in under 10 years?

 

[Jaye101]

Yes it does. On the other hand, an independent non-partisan planning authority would never have moved as quickly, decisively, or boldly as the Doug Ford government putting it's boot up Metrolinx's tail.

Niftz is making excellent points. For some reason there's a pattern in Ontario of Liberals coming up with ingenious ideas and the Conservatives actually seeing them through.

Some of the plans that were being pursued by the previous Liberal gov't were nonsensical. The one stop Scarborough subways extension, and the Downtown relief line's first phase that was restricted to Pape to Osgoode among the biggest blunders. This is coming from a fan of Kathleen Wynne. I actually believe she's a genius. But in order to move forward we needed pragmatism and a gov't willing to stand up to NIMBY's.

The first phase of the DRL would have resembled a shuttle from Danforth to the core, serving no real purpose other than directing Line 2 users away from Y-B. Terminating the line at Danforth and University would have increased travel times significantly as trains would turn back at the busiest stations on the line. This new line is actually useful in and of itself, while also serving 2 priority neighbourhoods with RT.

As someone who grew up in Scarborough, extending the line that one stop to Sheppard East is a game changer. Yes, it's a small distance. But the traffic from Sheppard over the 401 to STC during rush, in a car can exceed 25 mins. And also, this idea manages to extend service to another priority neighbourhood. Not to mention the costs saved in construction inflation as these additions were inevitable.

GO RER was and still is Kathleen Wynne's brainchild. It might have been inevitable, but had she not pursued it, it may not have happened for decades longer. Credit given where it's due.

 

[APTA-2048]

It most likely will take us close to 15 years to build a straight line across Egliniton, how comfortable are in believing the Ontario line will be done in under 10 years?

We’re probably going to run into a couple “Eglinton station problems”. 10 years definitely seems optimistic.

 

[nfitz]

We’re probably going to run into a couple “Eglinton station problems”. 10 years definitely seems optimistic.

Is it? It's supposed to be 8 years - though we haven't heard the post financial closure estimate yet.

Eglinton was always planned (visioned?) to take longer, with the way the contracts were split up, and the tunnelling being done in advance of the design and award of the stations and other infrastructure.

Ontario line could be 2 years late, and still be done in 10 years.

On the other hand, 4 years ago, we were promised it would be delivered in 2027.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

One of Toronto’s great urban minds (sarcasm) shares his thoughts on the Ontario Line:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594771627312664583

 

[drum118]

We take a ride on OL Future Trafikselskabet Movia (Movia) M2 Line Hitachi Rail Italy Driverless Metro In Copenhagen Denmark on July 15/22 from the Airport to the Train Station

Got to love the Rail Fan view

Fast

 

[afransen]

If the Ontario Line stations will have platform (screen?) doors, will the interchange stations with Line 1 (Osgoode, Queen), Line 2 (Pape), and Line 5 (Science Centre) get platform (screen?) doors as well?

I don't think there are any plans to retrofit the existing platforms with PSDs.

 

[toronto647]

It’s equally disingenuous to state that a visioning document (ie a bunch of lines on a map without business cases, funding, or basic engineering feasibility work) is a plan - but you do you.

I stand by my statement that all we’ll see in the next decade is the Eg W to Pearson and the Sheppard extension. The OL west extension won’t be built anytime soon, and if it does get dusted off, it’ll look very, very different.

Sheppard or till Finch (Seneca College) potentially?