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nfitz

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whatever it is. the western potion to exhibition is staying and the northern to science center is staying probably elevated, dont think i heard anything people didnt like about the actual line going through the area, just the msf
I don't think many are particularly bothered by elevated transit on Overlea, or on Don Mills Road.

I'm not thrilled about the poorly located station at Eglinton though - and I wonder if the one further south, in front of the Science Centre, might be better off being further south.
 

denfromoakvillemilton

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Looks like we will get no relief line west since the Kitchener corridor is getting all those smart track stations. I hope the northern leg goes up to don mills/finch.
 

denfromoakvillemilton

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The problem is shifting that stuff will delay the project majorly at this point. Metrolinx is planning to have the Lakeshore East corridor under construction by the time the election happens - which sort of closes that window of opportunity.

We'll see, I'm doubtful we'll even see a change of government next year anyway.
since its being brought up again. Del Duca has specifically stated they wont "cancel" any project that is shovels in the ground. But that doesnt mean he couldnt listen to the nimbys in riverside and tunnel it, that and the msf.

whatever it is. the western potion to exhibition is staying and the northern to science center is staying probably elevated, dont think i heard anything people didnt like about the actual line going through the area, just the msf


I don't think moving the western section from exhibition to queen would delay things too much. the east side, yes since they are racing to get shovels in the ground over there. Riverside will lose this battle imo.
 

Amare

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Well i'm sure John Tory's smart signalling initiative will save us all!

By that point, half our arterial roads in and around the core will have been affected by one of: CafeTO, permanent Bike Lanes, Transit Priority, and who knows what else. All of the aforementioned sound and work great, assuming we have a functional subway system that isnt crippled by any given shutdown. The moment the subway is down, the city will literally be paralyzed: replacement buses wont be able to get anywhere, Ubers wont be able to move anywhere, bikes can only move so many people, etc.

There needs to be a radical re-thinking of the road network in preparation for this project, because as it stands now the city is not ready whatsoever and I have no faith John Tory will get it ready either.
 

DirectionNorth

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Well i'm sure John Tory's smart signalling initiative will save us all!

By that point, half our arterial roads in and around the core will have been affected by one of: CafeTO, permanent Bike Lanes, Transit Priority, and who knows what else.
Terrified of non-drivers interfering with your right to monopolize public spaces?
All of the aforementioned sound and work great, assuming we have a functional subway system that isnt crippled by any given shutdown. The moment the subway is down, the city will literally be paralyzed: replacement buses wont be able to get anywhere, Ubers wont be able to move anywhere, bikes can only move so many people, etc.
The most efficient way to moving people would be to shut down vehicular traffic and force everybody to walk, which takes less space.

There are plenty of reasons why that is a bad idea, so we have to work around it.

This means increasing capacity, which means reducing cars.
There needs to be a radical re-thinking of the road network in preparation for this project, because as it stands now the city is not ready whatsoever and I have no faith John Tory will get it ready either.
How can you do a "radical re-thinking" of the road network? Demolish downtown and rebuild?
 

EddyMCD

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Those traffic projections are horrendous, but the project is necessary. It's a very difficult spot to be in. But as with others, I have almost zero faith in Tory and the downtown councilors ability to do anything beneficial here.
 

TheTigerMaster

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Terrified of non-drivers interfering with your right to monopolize public spaces?

The most efficient way to moving people would be to shut down vehicular traffic and force everybody to walk, which takes less space.

There are plenty of reasons why that is a bad idea, so we have to work around it.

This means increasing capacity, which means reducing cars.

How can you do a "radical re-thinking" of the road network? Demolish downtown and rebuild?
This is our greatest weapon yet in the War on Cars :cool:
 

innsertnamehere

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zero chance those projections materialize - they are simply too great. It already often takes over 30 minutes to cross downtown on Adelaide at rush hour. Trips will just not be taken instead. Which isn't great news, but it is what it is. Adelaide is already comically bad at rush hour anyway.

If you are stupid enough to be trying to drive across the core at 5pm you have it coming for you anyway.

What would make Richmond so much worse anyway? The 501 screwing with vehicle flow? Richmond generally moves relatively well other than at University. Perhaps the 501 turning onto York at an already bad intersection there will just make it even worse..
 

Amare

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Terrified of non-drivers interfering with your right to monopolize public spaces?
No.

The most efficient way to moving people would be to shut down vehicular traffic and force everybody to walk, which takes less space.

There are plenty of reasons why that is a bad idea, so we have to work around it.

This means increasing capacity, which means reducing cars.
The most efficient way to move people during the closure would not be to shutdown vehicular traffic and force everyone to walk, this is false and you know it.

How can you do a "radical re-thinking" of the road network? Demolish downtown and rebuild?
Again no. What im saying is that there needs to be critical thought as to having alternate provisions in our CURRENT road network for people to get to where they need to get to (ie: suspend CafeTO in the surrounding area, implement smart signals on all signalized intersections in the affected areas, temporarily remove bike lanes in the affected areas and replace with temporary HOV lanes if possible with heavy enforcement, re-think parking rules, etc.).

I'm not a car lover, hell I dont even own a car; I rely on public transit to get around and even I know how flawed our network is. This will affect public transit riders much more severely than any car driver. Ever try taking the 501 before construction on Queen and Roncesvalles? Have you tried during the current construction? Because those 2 experiences are nothing like the hell riders would have to endure during this OL construction. Same goes for riders of the 504, 511, 505 and most likely; 506, and 510. I havent even mentioned the ~dozen bus routes that would be affected.
 

W. K. Lis

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Maybe if the powers-that-be put the emphasis on providing thorough pubic transit priority instead of providing priority for single-occupant motor vehicles, it would be better. Provide "temporary" right-of-ways for the streetcars and buses through the construction or detours around them, it would be better. Having the transit vehicles compete with automobiles who ignore signs or sneak in front of buses or streetcars, should not be allowed. Maybe even ban the single-occupant private automobile maybe required around the construction zones.
 

DirectionNorth

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No.
The most efficient way to move people during the closure would not be to shutdown vehicular traffic and force everyone to walk, this is false and you know it.
Cars are the most space inefficient method of travel, unless you somehow managed to introduce flights from Pearson to Billy Bishop.
Again no. What im saying is that there needs to be critical thought as to having alternate provisions in our CURRENT road network for people to get to where they need to get to (ie: suspend CafeTO in the surrounding area,
OK, fair.
implement smart signals on all signalized intersections in the affected areas,
I'm not a traffic engineer, but there's probably a limit to how efficient traffic lights can get.
temporarily remove bike lanes in the affected areas
Which will become permanent. Everyone who's on a bike is taking up less road space, or transit space.
and replace with temporary HOV lanes if possible with heavy enforcement,
How can you do that on downtown streets?
re-think parking rules, etc.).
I'm with you on this one.
I'm not a car lover, hell I don't even own a car; I rely on public transit to get around and even I know how flawed our network is. This will affect public transit riders much more severely than any car driver. Ever try taking the 501 before construction on Queen and Roncesvalles? Have you tried during the current construction? Because those 2 experiences are nothing like the hell riders would have to endure during this OL construction. Same goes for riders of the 504, 511, 505 and most likely; 506, and 510. I havent even mentioned the ~dozen bus routes that would be affected.
The King St Pilot showed that removing cars meant a substantial increase in ridership, and a (oh my god did I say increase? That's so embarassing) decrease in travel times. We could try that again. Or we could introduce transit-only lanes to encourage a more efficient mode of transport.
 
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TheTigerMaster

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temporarily remove bike lanes in the affected areas and replace with temporary HOV lanes

Which will become permanent. Everyone who's on a bike is taking up less road space, or transit space.
We need to stop treating cycling infrastructure as optional. With the population of Downtown Toronto set to double, and with Downtown’s subway and streetcar network remaining grossly inadequate, the only way we’re going to move that many people efficiently across the core is with huge upticks in walking and cycling. Cycling is very much key to future growth and vitality of the core.
 

Amare

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Cars are the most space inefficient method of travel, unless you somehow managed to introduce flights from Pearson to Billy Bishop.
I think you forget buses and streetcars share road space as well, and are far more efficient then cars.

Which will become permanent. Everyone who's on a bike is taking up less road space, or transit space.
How do you know this? Will the Yonge Street bike lanes become permanent automatically even though they are currently temporary? I understand your pessimism because we're talking about Toronto, but have a bit of hope.


How can you do that on downtown streets?
Again radical, but get rid of on-street parking on a couple arterials and make them transit/HOV lanes during peak periods at least. Businesses will hate it, but they will already be losing business because of the heavy/lengthy construction.


We need to stop treating cycling infrastructure as optional. With the population of Downtown Toronto set to double, and with Downtown’s subway and streetcar network remaining grossly inadequate, the only way we’re going to move that many people efficiently across the core is with huge upticks in walking and cycling. Cycling is very much key to future growth and vitality of the core.
Trust me it pains me to say it, but bikes will not move anywhere near the amount of people in the downtown core compared to transit. Most especially in the winter time. Im not saying get rid of them forever, but this is a case where we have a critical infrastructure project that will effect tens of thousands of people for what will be almost a decade. Like I said it's a radical idea, but it needs to be considered in this specific case. I'll give you an example why: a commute via TTC from Etobicoke to Yonge/Queen taking 1 hour today will easily turn into 1 hour 30 mins at the minimum once this project gets underway.

Which brings me to another point: fare integration better damn well be in place long before this project sees heavy construction, because very few will be willing to put up with that kind of dreadful commute.
 

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