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NoahB

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I don't know why somehow the conversation here turned into some transit sleuths misreading a bunch of 'not to scale' images and thinking the project somehow dramatically changed since. So I'll try to clear some things up.:

1- Platform lengths will be built to be 100m, expandability of the platform has not been publicly discussed. - ref: Preliminary Design Business Case
Also: The images showing 100m long squares like the one below denotes the rough platform location, not the station box.
downtown_overview.jpg

Compare the Moss Park Station platforms above with its estimated station box below. You can see the box is larger and includes the entrance segment.
211007_mossparkstationcontextmap.jpg

and then compare it to Google Maps.

1639021666913.png


The station boxes are bigger than the platforms because there needs to be space for supporting infrastructure. Whether that space can be used as platform space in the future is not clear.



2- The ultimate train size is still targeted to be 5-car 100*3m trainsets at a capacity of 750 people per train. But the December 2020 Preliminary Design Business Case mentions that it would be prudent to start with 80m, 4-car trains. It has not been announced if that is the plan is what they will go with. Note that the capacity stated is not under crush load.

For reference here is what the PDBC's Refined Operating Concept.
1638751078342.png



For reference here is what the PDBC states as the design considerations.
1638751339198.png



A decision has not been announced on whether the province will go with the 80m train plan or not.
 
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robmausser

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ML went with deep tube tunnel instead of the shallow cut and cover tunnel. This allows them to dig one continuous tunnel from Exhibition to Distillery. Otherwise they'll need to have an excavation shaft on Queen somewhere and transition to cut and cover creating long stretches of multi year closure. This approach makes it easier to build and less road closures.
So instead of closing some roads for a couple of years we will have to traverse a labyrinth of escalators and elevators forever. Nice.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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So instead of closing some roads for a couple of years we will have to traverse a labyrinth of escalators and elevators forever. Nice.

Not just closing roads - but having to rebuild the existing/secure utilities along said roads, plus the complexity of dealing with structures along the route, Also by the nature of how shallow Yonge and University lines are - at least a portion of OL will have to go deeper, nevermind that you can't use this method at the western end when it starts going off Queen. Not to mention if you close Queen you'd have to take out the existing Queen streetcar completely in the core - and lord knows the impact of doing that.

People overstate how much "friction" a few more escalators generate - it's not perfect, but people live with this sort of thing (they certainly did in London and Hong Kong, among other places).

AoD
 
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asher__jo

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Cut and cover really isn't a viable option with the line 1 and the path network, and then there are all the utility lines and sewer pipes.
 

nfitz

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That's a detour of the middle portion - if we do cut and cover you will have to basically shut down the line from Parliament to Spadina.
If you cut and cover between, say, Victoria and Simcoe, it's not going to have much more impact than the current Queen closure plan. Though you'd have to add detour tracks down John or Duncan instead of York, and more track on Richmond - but not much more work really.
 

lenaitch

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Do they have to be mutually exclusive? I believe they continued to run the Yonge streetcar on the cut-and-cover deck during the construction of the original subway.

ttc-2.jpg
 

W. K. Lis

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Ontario Line will have six or seven (do I hear eight?) interchange stations. Exhibition (with the GO Trains), Osgoode (Line 1), Queen (Line 1), East Harbour (with the GO Trains), Pape (Line 2), Thorncliffe Park (if we get a GO Midtown Train), and Science Centre (Line 5).

 
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nfitz

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Do they have to be mutually exclusive? I believe they continued to run the Yonge streetcar on the cut-and-cover deck during the construction of the original subway.
Absolutely they could - and they used some of these techniques on Eglinton, where TTC had more involvement in the design.

But it's cheaper just to screw up downtown travel for a decade. I'm sure they'll be more careful in Etobicoke and Scarborough.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Do they have to be mutually exclusive? I believe they continued to run the Yonge streetcar on the cut-and-cover deck during the construction of the original subway.

ttc-2.jpg

Only a relatively small portion of Yonge, given the alignment veered slightly east just north of College Street. I imagine you can cut and cover sequentially and diverting the line that way, but that's still pretty disruptive.

AoD
 
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KhalilHeron

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Do they have to be mutually exclusive? I believe they continued to run the Yonge streetcar on the cut-and-cover deck during the construction of the original subway.

ttc-2.jpg
Not sure if this method has been used anywhere recently but I doubt current safety standards would allow for streetcars to run on temporary decking
 

rbt

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I would even more concern with the transfer stations. Are we up for another 7 years of no-weekend trains on Lines 1, 2, and 5.. I hope not!

Disruptions to Line 1 and Line 5 will be quite small.

The depth under Line 1 is substantial, including leaving a large gap of stable self-supporting ground between them. Crosstown construction excavated directly under the existing Line 1 tunnels and installed supports the tunnels as they went.

Don Mills & Eglinton is an elevated Ontario Line station which is well to the side of the excavated Line 5 station box. I wouldn't expect any service interruptions here other than a boarded off work area.

No idea about Pape/Line 2.
 

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