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MisterF

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44 North

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So the first past the post system that gives power to a single party is at least partly to blame. Yet another reason that electoral reform is needed.

Sometimes I imagine a Prov and Fed system with no parties. It would effectively be like City Council. Not saying there weren't problems, but there's certainly less politicking and useless tiresome games when everyone's an independent.
 

MisterF

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You can already see NDP making it hard for Liberals to make decisions by asking for more. Imagine if opposition party too had a say.
And yet countries with systems where parties share power tend to have better mass transit systems than countries with first past the post. And they build it faster and cheaper. Clearly FPTP isn't any more stable or effective than other systems.

The opposition opposes the government because that's what our system encourages them to do. If we had a system that forced parties to work together we'd see different behaviour.
 

Deadpool X

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And yet countries with systems where parties share power tend to have better mass transit systems than countries with first past the post. And they build it faster and cheaper. Clearly FPTP isn't any more stable or effective than other systems.

The opposition opposes the government because that's what our system encourages them to do. If we had a system that forced parties to work together we'd see different behaviour.
I am talking about everything, not just transit. The countries that have better transit system also tend to be denser and transit gets higher patronage because of that. I don't think you can draw such a correlation in isolation.
 

hawc

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So the Porsche dealership at Front & Parliament was expropriated for the Ontario Line.

They've relocated to Parliament and Lakeshore.

Pretty crazy because they just finished a $7M renovation on the place last year and now the whole building is just going t be demolished.

Wonder how much it cost the government to buy it.
 

MisterF

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I am talking about everything, not just transit. The countries that have better transit system also tend to be denser and transit gets higher patronage because of that. I don't think you can draw such a correlation in isolation.
Transit patronage in a city has nothing to do with the density of the country it's in. The emptiness of Siberia is irrelevant to getting around Moscow for example.

As stated in the article, first past the post systems enable a single party to grab all the power, which encourages vast swings from one party to another. That's a big part of what inflates costs in countries with FPTP. Most democracies have systems that force multiple parties work together. With those systems a transit plan doesn't belong to a single party or leader, so plans don't get changed or cancelled as much as we're so used to here. Plans continue to move ahead regardless of who's in power, increasing stability and reducing costs. Sure that seems impossible in our system but it's the normal way of doing things in the rest of the world.

The idea that other forms of democracy don't get things done is completely backwards.
 

Deadpool X

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Transit patronage in a city has nothing to do with the density of the country it's in. The emptiness of Siberia is irrelevant to getting around Moscow for example.
That's quite a bit of nitpicking. Obviously urban transit exists within cities/metro areas and not in the countryside. By high density I was referring to cities.
 

W. K. Lis

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That's quite a bit of nitpicking. Obviously urban transit exists within cities/metro areas and not in the countryside. By high density I was referring to cities.
There have been times that rapid transit stations have been built BEFORE development came in. Happened in New York City, happening now in China. High density goes in around the stations.
 

MisterF

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That's quite a bit of nitpicking. Obviously urban transit exists within cities/metro areas and not in the countryside. By high density I was referring to cities.
Your post referred to countries, not cities. But sure, let's look at cities/metro areas. Urban areas are probably the best apples to apples comparison between countries. The urban area (population centre in StatsCan terms) population density of Toronto was 3028/sq km in the last census. Here's how that compares to some other large urban areas:

Milan 2800
Berlin 2900
Rhine/Ruhr 2287
Rotterdam 2700
Moscow 3009
Amsterdam 3662
Frankfurt 2939

Even Paris is in the 3000s and Madrid is in the 4000s. Both denser than Toronto but not by so much to explain how bad our rapid transit system is and how expensive it is to build here. Clearly there are other explanations.

We have this notion in Canada that major European cities are significantly denser than our own largest cities. They're not.
 

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