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toronto647

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It's getting pretty close. From Ossington 85-100% full.

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Once the EGLRT opens at the end of the year I expect it to be Red from Eglinton due to the increased ridership that the LRT will bring.
 

innsertnamehere

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Once the EGLRT opens at the end of the year I expect it to be Red from Eglinton due to the increased ridership that the LRT will bring.
If COVID doesn't have any long term impacts on ridership that is.. By the end of this year it almost certainly will still have some. IIRC the TTC is optimistically not expecting ridership to be back to normal until at least 2024, and even then I expect COVID will result in reduced peak hour loads (though only a relatively small amount) over the long term.
 

fanoftoronto

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Once the EGLRT opens at the end of the year I expect it to be Red from Eglinton due to the increased ridership that the LRT will bring.

Isn't ATC supposed to be fully rolled out by the end of this year? That should accommodate the overall increase in ridership due to the ECLRT.

The OL will be just in time 10 years from now to relieve the Yonge line again when ridership goes back into the red.
 

EnviroTO

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*cough* Etobicoke RT *cough* It's almost like we have had this discussion before.
Yes, back when Kipling station was built and the platform for it was installed.

Do we need to relieve Line 2's western half? Never heard of this line being unable to meet demand.
Not yet. It does get busy, there is a lot of growth at Islington, Kipling, and the East & West Malls, and if an extension does occur it could start to run up against the existing capacity constraints. A line from Humber Loop to the Airport via Kipling hits the big growth areas (Etobicoke Waterfront, New Etobicoke Center @ Kipling, the East/West Malls, the Airport Corporate Centre, and the GTAA Hub.

OntarioLineWest.png
 

generalcanada

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Wait till you see the bill for tunnelling that line...
i mean in terms of fantasy transit mapping, hypothetically it could run like right alongside the go tracks till park lawn then you can tunnel north. saves a bit of money, even then. if it stops there, thats a huge improvement compared to the long branch streetcar in terms of travel time. im not a fan of the tunneling under SFH's and industrial parks
 

syn

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Yes, back when Kipling station was built and the platform for it was installed.


Not yet. It does get busy, there is a lot of growth at Islington, Kipling, and the East & West Malls, and if an extension does occur it could start to run up against the existing capacity constraints. A line from Humber Loop to the Airport via Kipling hits the big growth areas (Etobicoke Waterfront, New Etobicoke Center @ Kipling, the East/West Malls, the Airport Corporate Centre, and the GTAA Hub.

View attachment 393931

Would an Islington Station or Sherway connection make more sense?
 

Ward8

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A line from Humber Loop to the Airport via Kipling hits the big growth areas (Etobicoke Waterfront, New Etobicoke Center @ Kipling, the East/West Malls, the Airport Corporate Centre, and the GTAA Hub.
Wouldn't it make more sense to connect the OL to the GO line that is already less than 4km away at Dundas West? Or the new station going in at Sudbury? It seems like this is a bit of a misapplication of the OL. I do however think that rapid transit from Kipling to the airport makes a lot of sense as you have the hydro corridor to the north and a rail corridor to the south.
 

EnviroTO

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Would an Islington Station or Sherway connection make more sense?
Kipling is the new "Etobicoke Centre", similar to Richmond Hill Center (where VIVA + GO + Line 1 meet) and Vaughan Centre (VIVA + Line 1), and it has the GO station for connections west (i.e. you come in from the airport or points north, and can connect to Milton line westward without going downtown). If you live in Milton or along that line and you want to go to the airport there is now a more direct route without taking a bus. Putting it at Kipling both serves this rapidly growing hub and creates greater network interconnectivity.

A Sherway connection makes sense as they build up that area, but as an extension to Line 1.

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EnviroTO

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Wouldn't it make more sense to connect the OL to the GO line that is already less than 4km away at Dundas West?
If we think of our rail lines as being equal to rapid transit which is the whole point of RER / electrification / SmartTrack, why would it make sense to run rapid transit Kitchener Line (Line C) from Liberty Village to Dundas West, UP Express to Dundas West, Ontario Line (likely Line 3) to Dundas West, and a King streetcar (504) to Dundas West?? Dundas West is not slated to become a major urban core according to any city or provincial plans. What is happening at Dundas West that needs so many routes to connect it with downtown and the Liberty Village / Exhibition area?
 

sacred

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If we think of our rail lines as being equal to rapid transit which is the whole point of RER / electrification / SmartTrack, why would it make sense to run rapid transit Kitchener Line (Line C) from Liberty Village to Dundas West, UP Express to Dundas West, Ontario Line (likely Line 3) to Dundas West, and a King streetcar (504) to Dundas West?? Dundas West is not slated to become a major urban core according to any city or provincial plans. What is happening at Dundas West that needs so many routes to connect it with downtown and the Liberty Village / Exhibition area?
The answer, of course, is “not enough”.
 

Ward8

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If we think of our rail lines as being equal to rapid transit which is the whole point of RER / electrification / SmartTrack, why would it make sense to run rapid transit Kitchener Line (Line C) from Liberty Village to Dundas West, UP Express to Dundas West, Ontario Line (likely Line 3) to Dundas West, and a King streetcar (504) to Dundas West?? Dundas West is not slated to become a major urban core according to any city or provincial plans. What is happening at Dundas West that needs so many routes to connect it with downtown and the Liberty Village / Exhibition area?
Not enough is correct, however it often gets brought up because it has such enormous potential to give riders maximum interchange connectivity. There are several goals it would accomplish by having an interchange somewhere on the Bloor line. It would relieve developing capacity issues on line 2, it would relieve overcrowded north south bus routes and provide rapid transit connectivity to busy areas of the city that are underserved. It would also make a lot of sense with the eastern part of the line in terms of the types of trips people will be taking and provide redundancy to an overstressed network. Furthermore, the density along Dufferin is greater (and will be in the future as well) than anywhere in Etobicoke and has less transit available. There are other neighbourhoods in the west in a similar situation. I say this all as someone who used to ride the 191 every day.

You point out rightly that people will want to go from the airport to northern destinations without travelling south first, but there is no advantage to making that route part of the Ontario Line. It would make more sense to continue a northern 407 alignment all the way to Oshawa GO and maximize transfer points with all north south lines. I don't see any advantage to having the OL try to be everything all at once. I also cant wrap my head around tunnelling under vast amounts of SFH when low cost right of ways exist.
 

EnviroTO

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Not enough is correct, however it often gets brought up because it has such enormous potential to give riders maximum interchange connectivity. There are several goals it would accomplish by having an interchange somewhere on the Bloor line. It would relieve developing capacity issues on line 2, it would relieve overcrowded north south bus routes and provide rapid transit connectivity to busy areas of the city that are underserved.
Interchange from where to where? Line 2 to Liberty Village / CNE take Line C (Kitchener), Line 2 to Airport or Downtown take UP, going to north downtown stay on Line 2 to St George or Yonge, going into the neighbourhood transfer onto the bus or streetcar. What is the gap that an Ontario Line to Dundas West is expected to fill?

It would also make a lot of sense with the eastern part of the line in terms of the types of trips people will be taking and provide redundancy to an overstressed network.
The frequent service from Dundas West to downtown will be new... how can it be overstressed on day one? Where is the network stress that is being relieved?

Furthermore, the density along Dufferin is greater (and will be in the future as well) than anywhere in Etobicoke and has less transit available. There are other neighbourhoods in the west in a similar situation. I say this all as someone who used to ride the 191 every day.
The 191 doesn't stop at all the developments along the way or the Renforth airport corporate centre. Have you been on the TTC 111 and 112, plus the Mississauga 35, 107, and 109 which all currently take people from Kipling to Eglinton and 427 area? How does an Ontario Line to Dundas West improve the bus capacity challenge on Dufferin better than non-stop Dundas West to Liberty Village service?

You point out rightly that people will want to go from the airport to northern destinations without travelling south first, but there is no advantage to making that route part of the Ontario Line. It would make more sense to continue a northern 407 alignment all the way to Oshawa GO and maximize transfer points with all north south lines.
This loop is the provincial plan. I'm more interested in the "U" of the Ontario Line than the "O" which includes the connection across the top which will not need Ontario Line capacity for a while. I agree that at the airport or at 407 a transfer to a Oakville-Oshawa 403-407 connection of some sort likely makes more sense in the shorter term. However, if the density proposed at 7 & Weston, VMC, Richmond Hill Centre (south of Bridge and High Tech), Beaver Creek, and Markham Centre all materialize that is going to be a dense corridor that is ill served by asking people to walk from Highway 7 to the freeway (almost a 1km walk from most buildings) and I can see at some point VIVA will not serve that capacity well... but again... not a high priority in the short term because VIVA reaching capacity is a ways off now.

I don't see any advantage to having the OL try to be everything all at once. I also cant wrap my head around tunnelling under vast amounts of SFH when low cost right of ways exist.
If you are in Humber Bay Shores and want to go somewhere other than a location other than downtown or Lakeshore West, what option is there? If you are arguing the point that the Ontario Line should end at Exhibition, then I can understand that perspective... it is the perspective that north-south capacity is adequately served. If you are arguing the point that somehow having the Ontario Line go Dundas West makes sense, then I don't understand that at all because that line already exists (Line C for express, and 504 for a more local option), and to get to Dundas West from Exhibition you would likely pass under SFH to serve places already served.

Why would someone look at this map and say "that blue line should really follow almost exactly the red ones".
OntarioLineWest_Developments.png
 
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DopeyFish

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it would probably make more sense to build ontario line along the gardiner with subway length stops (so it sort of works as queensway rapid transit), have it loop into sherway to connect to future line 2 extension (underground) and then have it run north along the 427 until it hits pearson with less aggressive stop spacing

it'd probably suck in terms of accessibility as we'd have elevated stations and have really poor ridership along the N-S portion north of sherway, but it'd be a lot better pill to swallow.
 

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