AlvinofDiaspar

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I read his article but I still don't see anything he says as being away to actually get people to come to Ontario place the revolving stage in the old ampthaterare was a novelty sure but today's performers don't always plan their stage shows for one unless they are traveling with a fully customized stage and don't want to put up with something that they don't have anywhere else.

You literally said this a few posts ago:

I don't care to read his opinion. I don't want to use a website to get around the Stars pay wall. People can have all of the opinions they want but that doesn't mean that what they want or think is going to happen. I joined this topic to find out what is happening to Ontario place not to read posts by people complaing about how it's not what they wanted and they didn't get a say in how it was done or something like that.

Don't play word games.

MoD
 

thaivic

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David Olive over at The Star has a scathing piece on the Ontario Place proposal.

He also asserts that it will never actually happen.

Then goes on to make the case that the OP should be 100% free admission, and should model itself more after Millennium Park in Chicago (which he argues lifted some traits of the original OP).

Article link here:


It is paywalled, but Outline works.
David Olive has no love for the current premier or for the PC party, one just has to read the his previous rants about the current Goverment.

The least he can do is try not to be bias and be accurate on what he writes.

Millennium Park cost $490,000,000.00 US ($614,000,000.00 CAN) in 2004 dollars not $360 million as he reported, in todays construction cost would exceed $1.2 B and if the Government was funding it it would exceed $2 Billion

It's laughable to compare Ontario Place to Stanley Park, Mount Royal, Central Park, Hyde Park, or Luxembourg Gardens.

The only thing that i am opposed to is that Ontario Place becoming just more Green Space that is under utilized, we need to make it a place where we can attract year round active uses, we need to bury the parking lots, we need to utilize the existing pods, cinesphere better then they have been, i am not a big fan of the current proposal but i can see some good in some parts of the proposal.

In my opinion we will never have a Stanley Park or a Central park unless we create better access to the Islands or we fill in a section of the lake to create a new land mass to create a new park along the waterfront.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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You literally said this a few posts ago:



Don't play word games.

MoD
I decided to read it because it's apprently important that I did I still don't see anything in it that would actually support Ontario place being free and would attract people to come to it most of it is based on pure nestalga for what it was in the 70's and 80's. People have changed the way they look at things now and a large children's play area like they had then isn't what today's parents want to take their kids too anymore. I also pointed out that the revolving stage isn't going to attract major artists to come to Ontario place because it's a gimic that they would have to design one show around instead of just being able to come in set up and leave the next day, bands that use things like revolving stages have them specialty designed for them from the ground up so that they have control over everything and they would be more likely to perform at the Scotiabank arena or Rogers centre over one at Ontario place.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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David Olive has no love for the current premier or for the PC party, one just has to read the his previous rants about the current Goverment.

The least he can do is try not to be bias and be accurate on what he writes.

Millennium Park cost $490,000,000.00 US ($614,000,000.00 CAN) in 2004 dollars not $360 million as he reported, in todays construction cost would exceed $1.2 B and if the Government was funding it it would exceed $2 Billion

Its laughable to compare Ontario Place to Stanley Park, Mount Royal, Central Park, Hyde Park, or Luxembourg Gardens.

The only thing that i am opposed to is that Ontario Place becoming just more Green Space that is under utilized, we need to make it a place where we can attract year round active uses, we need to bury the parking lots, we need to utilize the existing pods, cinesphere better then they have been, i am not a big fan of the current proposal but i can see some good in some parts of the proposal.

In my opinion we will never have a Stanley Park or a Central park unless we create better access to the Islands or we fill in a section of the lake to create a new land mass to create a new park along the waterfront.
Well said your much better than I am at trying to say things like this.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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David Olive has no love for the current premier or for the PC party, one just has to read the his previous rants about the current Goverment.

The least he can do is try not to be bias and be accurate on what he writes.

Millennium Park cost $490,000,000.00 US ($614,000,000.00 CAN) in 2004 dollars not $360 million as he reported, in todays construction cost would exceed $1.2 B and if the Government was funding it it would exceed $2 Billion

Its laughable to compare Ontario Place to Stanley Park, Mount Royal, Central Park, Hyde Park, or Luxembourg Gardens.

The only thing that i am opposed to is that Ontario Place becoming just more Green Space that is under utilized, we need to make it a place where we can attract year round active uses, we need to bury the parking lots, we need to utilize the existing pods, cinesphere better then they have been, i am not a big fan of the current proposal but i can see some good in some parts of the proposal.

In my opinion we will never have a Stanley Park or a Central park unless we create better access to the Islands or we fill in a section of the lake to create a new land mass to create a new park along the waterfront.

I don't think Millennium Park should be the model for OP - (I thought Ex would have been better, and has similar elements already - for that), though a good chunk of the cost has to do with the engineering the site and parking structure underneath the park itself (and not the park elements per se).

AoD
 

Northern Light

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David Olive has no love for the current premier or for the PC party, one just has to read the his previous rants about the current Goverment.

The least he can do is try not to be bias and be accurate on what he writes.

This is a given. (He was also off with his dates, based on what proponents have said, at least in respect of the adventure operator)

Millennium Park cost $490,000,000.00 US ($614,000,000.00 CAN) in 2004 dollars not $360 million as he reported, in todays construction cost would exceed $1.2 B and if the Government was funding it it would exceed $2 Billion

Good info.

Its laughable to compare Ontario Place to Stanley Park, Mount Royal, Central Park, Hyde Park, or Luxembourg Gardens.

I'm not sure he did that exactly, I may need to re-read the piece. I got the sense he was using those as examples of parks we should emulate, not suggesting that OP was at their level currently.

The only thing that i am opposed to is that Ontario Place becoming just more Green Space that is under utilized, we need to make it a place where we can attract year round active uses, we need to bury the parking lots, we need to utilize the existing pods, cinesphere better then they have been

Agreed. I may be a bit more open to larger amount of passive space than you might; but certainly, I agree the space should be vital and well used; the parking lots (as surface space) must go; the pods/cinesphere must stay.


i am not a big fan of the current proposal but i can see some good in some parts of the proposal.

I'm fine with retaining an amphitheater, and open to some adventure-type attractions.
Therme is the thing that most irritates me on a number of levels as a poorly conceived proposal for this site.
I am also concerned about the price point on the adventure section (not championing 'free-everything' but I do think an accessible price point is important. )

In my opinion we will never have a Stanley Park or a Central park unless we create better access to the Islands or we fill in a section of the lake to create a new land mass to create a new park along the waterfront.

I think the Islands are likely the best approximation of that type of idea, as you note. Aside from the need to invest in the Islands, and in improved access to/from them; I remain a proponent of growing the park/public space there at the expense of the airport.
 
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EastYorkTTCFan

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I don't think Millennium Park should be the model for OP - (I thought Ex would have been better, and has similar elements already - for that), though a good chunk of the cost has to do with the engineering the site and parking structure itself (and not the park elements per se).

AoD
I think the biggest problem with the exhibition grounds is the limited use they currently have in normal years for example in January you have the boat show that occupies the enercare centre for a few weeks and the parking lot is used both by the vendors and by people who drive in, then for the rest of the year until the EX is on it's mostly hockey games and the odd concert at the arena as well as soccer and football games at BMO until November when the royal winter fair is on otherwise the parking lot is mostly empty.

When the Honda Indy is on the area inside of the track is used for seating as well as for the various race teams and doesn't allow much access across it and can be a pain for people who need to get access to Ontario place much more than walking across a parking lot is.
 

Towered

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I decided to read it because it's apprently important that I did I still don't see anything in it that would actually support Ontario place being free and would attract people to come to it most of it is based on pure nestalga for what it was in the 70's and 80's. People have changed the way they look at things now and a large children's play area like they had then isn't what today's parents want to take their kids too anymore.

LOL.

Do you have kids?
 

Northern Light

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The Star does seem to running an OP-proposal bashing column of the day.

Today's it's Heather Mallick's turn.

In terms of specifics she only really targets Therme.

Excerpt below:

1628423664437.png


Her overall take seems to be pro-nature, though curiously, maybe with an Olmstead vibe (who did wonderful parks, but I don't exactly think of nature in them)....
She's also strongly advocates for hiring local firms; rather than American or other other foreign firms for design/operation.
She takes a moment to bash both ROM and AGO for having American CEOs/bosses and Cinesphere for playing American movies.

The critique is a tad incoherent and wandering. I, for one, am not obsessed the nationality of the head of each of our institutions. That said; the fact this is such a common phenomenon, not only in culture either is perhaps note-worthy.
We ought to be able to nurture home-grown leadership. While not engaging in the degree of navel-gazing of certain other countries, we should also be comfortable trumpeting our own successes, both for domestic and foreign (including tourist) consumption.

Article link here:


It's paywalled. But Outline works.
 

UtakataNoAnnex

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Buy Canada is almost as obnoxious as Buy America, IMO...

...I mean, if we complain about using sources from over there, then we shouldn't complain if over there doesn't use ours.
 

Northern Light

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Buy Canada is almost as obnoxious as Buy America, IMO...

...I mean, if we complain about using sources from over there, then we shouldn't complain if over there doesn't use ours.

Strictly speaking, I'm not sure I'd compare advocacy for Canadian culture, or Canadian leadership to 'Buy America'.

The latter program is about favouring physical products and services made domestically at the expense of all others, irrespective of price or quality.

All nations and sub-national regions do need to cultivate local leadership.

Everyone needs to cultivate their own cultural identity to combat the American juggernaut; but also to offer a distinct experience to tourists.

That said, I don't think Mallick's column did a particularly good job of advocating for such.
 

thaivic

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The Star does seem to running an OP-proposal bashing column of the day.

Today's it's Heather Mallick's turn.

In terms of specifics she only really targets Therme.

Excerpt below:

View attachment 340105

Her overall take seems to be pro-nature, though curiously, maybe with an Olmstead vibe (who did wonderful parks, but I don't exactly think of nature in them)....
She's also strongly advocates for hiring local firms; rather than American or other other foreign firms for design/operation.
She takes a moment to bash both ROM and AGO for having American CEOs/bosses and Cinesphere for playing American movies.

The critique is a tad incoherent and wandering. I, for one, am not obsessed the nationality of the head of each of our institutions. That said; the fact this is such a common phenomenon, not only in culture either is perhaps note-worthy.
We ought to be able to nurture home-grown leadership. While not engaging in the degree of navel-gazing of certain other countries, we should also be comfortable trumpeting our own successes, both for domestic and foreign (including tourist) consumption.

Article link here:


It's paywalled. But Outline works.
Another useless rant with no substance. This is not journalism it is an anti government rant, as i have stated before i am not a Ford fan and did not vote for him, to put the blame on him for tormenting old people in long term care is a huge stretch , i think she should look at the 2 previous administrations if she is looking for someone to blame and not blame someone who was in power for just over 1 year, also what continuing chaos with vaccinations is she talking about? Yes the province had a rough start just like all other Canadian provinces, when Canada had the vaccines there was no chaos in the Province rolling out the vaccines, it would be great to read articles with constructive ideas about Ontario Place instead of ranting on subject matters that have nothing to do with Ontario Place.
 

Northern Light

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Another useless rant with no substance. This is not journalism it is an anti government rant, as i have stated before i am not a Ford fan and did not vote for him, to put the blame on him for tormenting old people in long term care is a huge stretch , i think she should look at the 2 previous administrations if she is looking for someone to blame and not blame someone who was in power for just over 1 year,

Her rant on that subject was OT, and I don't want to derail the thread here in the same fashion. But I do think the Ford government made some poor policy choices as compared to BC on how to manage long-term care during the pandemic. But Mallick's rant was not a thoughtful critique, didn't need to be in that piece in any event.

also what continuing chaos with vaccinations is she talking about?

I presume the difficult many experienced making appointments to get said vaccine. I had no issues as my FHT had the vaccine, and emailed me when I was eligible, but I realize this was not the experience of many people.

It would be great to read articles with constructive ideas about Ontario Place instead of ranting on subject matters that have nothing to do with Ontario Place.

I endeavour to post relevant links to the thread from all sources; if there are more thorough pieces offering a more detailed thesis on the future of OP, and I run across them, they will be posted here.
 

UtakataNoAnnex

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Strictly speaking, I'm not sure I'd compare advocacy for Canadian culture, or Canadian leadership to 'Buy America'.

The latter program is about favouring physical products and services made domestically at the expense of all others, irrespective of price or quality.

All nations and sub-national regions do need to cultivate local leadership.

Everyone needs to cultivate their own cultural identity to combat the American juggernaut; but also to offer a distinct experience to tourists.

That said, I don't think Mallick's column did a particularly good job of advocating for such.
I did say almost as obnoxious... 😼
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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LOL.

Do you have kids?
What does that have to do with my comments over the old playground not being considered unsafe by today's satanders. Im' sorry but parents today wouy;dn't take ther kids to something like that anymore. There are too many ways for kids to get hurt or not be able to be seen by their parents. There are way too many legal issues now for the province to even look at a playground like what used to be there.
 

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