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AlvinofDiaspar

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^fair enough.....but that means (if i understand it correctly) if you arrived at T3 you would not use UP? How long a walk (and therefore how close to existing terminals) does that "true multimodal hub" have to be? Is there land that close (to both terminals, I guess) to build such a hub?

Can't imagine there isn't enough land - plus underground. In any case, some hubs are more important than others, and proximity to ACC really shouldn't be the driver when it will compromise the user experience from Pearson - think regional, not local.

AoD
 

Filip

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Can't imagine there isn't enough land - plus underground. In any case, some hubs are more important than others, and proximity to ACC really shouldn't be the driver when it will compromise the user experience from Pearson - think regional, not local.

AoD

The next phase of expansion for T1 would also involve extending the CPU (same as in computers, that is the large vaulted ceiling space anchoring the piers). There is a lot of room in that direction to build both an above and below ground hub; integrated into the expansion. The people mover (the current state one) is also designed to be extended one station east to service the other end of T1. This can be integrated into the transit hub.

Ideally all these services including HSR/GO RER/LRTs/Line 2 subway extension (one can dream) would meet in this central hub. Make it a multi-level underground station if need be. This has been done before, at most global hubs. UP wouldn't exist in this arrangement, as you could run an express train directly into the hub as well. I guess the current spur would be abandoned.
 

TOareaFan

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Airport Corporate Centre.

AoD
oh, thanks. What I was wondering if there is enough land that meets the description I gave within that easy walk from T1 and T3....thought I was responding to someone saying they would never take a train to another depot to take another transit option to get away from the airport.

Sorry if I misunderstood.
 

Filip

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oh, thanks. What I was wondering if there is enough land that meets the description I gave within that easy walk from T1 and T3....thought I was responding to someone saying they would never take a train to another depot to take another transit option to get away from the airport.

Sorry if I misunderstood.
The people mover from T3 to T1 can't really be compared as it connects directly into UP. You might as well call it the same station.

However, a train to get to the Georgetown line is a lot different, and duplicating the failures of the Air Train to JFK (which only goes as far as Jamaica).
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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The next phase of expansion for T1 would also involve extending the CPU (same as in computers, that is the large vaulted ceiling space anchoring the piers). There is a lot of room in that direction to build both an above and below ground hub; integrated into the expansion. The people mover (the current state one) is also designed to be extended one station east to service the other end of T1. This can be integrated into the transit hub.

Ideally all these services including HSR/GO RER/LRTs/Line 2 subway extension (one can dream) would meet in this central hub. Make it a multi-level underground station if need be. This has been done before, at most global hubs. UP wouldn't exist in this arrangement, as you could run an express train directly into the hub as well. I guess the current spur would be abandoned.

Yup, the CPU is already built and it's just waiting for the new pier where T2 used to be at (per the original plans) - and there is definitely more than enough space available. The current spur is sub par given the tight turns and shared tracks. It's better than not having anything, but the whole arrangement is awkward and on the cheap.

AoD
 

TOareaFan

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The people mover from T3 to T1 can't really be compared as it connects directly into UP. You might as well call it the same station.

However, a train to get to the Georgetown line is a lot different, and duplicating the failures of the Air Train to JFK (which only goes as far as Jamaica).
isn't that influcenced by how you design how the new/extended people mover integrates with the Malton station?
 

Filip

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Yup, the CPU is already built and it's just waiting for the new pier where T2 used to be at (per the original plans) - and there is definitely more than enough space available. The current spur is sub par given the tight turns and shared tracks. It's better than not having anything, but the whole arrangement is awkward and on the cheap.

AoD

I believe they're planning to extend it a bit for the new phase... Similar to how the CPU at T3 was extended about 10 years back.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Filip

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Interesting. Per the original Master Plan Pier G wouldn't require structural extension of the CPU, only utilizing what's being walled off. Pier H will require CPU extension.

http://www.torontopearson.com/uploadedFiles/GTAA/Content/About_GTAA/Strategy/Master_Plan/MP - Chapter 6 - Passenger Terminals.pdf


AoD
That Master Plan is grossly out of date... Sadly.

Pearson cannot rely on any plan it had up to date. Only 4 years ago and the airport had no idea international pax growth would carry the airport forward in the next decades. I don't even think the new pier can look like its twin (Pier E) as the layout is not conducive to international flights.

They also want to build a hotel connected to T1 - so there's another opportunity for infrastructure leading up to the multimodal hub.
 

Woodbridge_Heights

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Can't imagine there isn't enough land - plus underground. In any case, some hubs are more important than others, and proximity to ACC really shouldn't be the driver when it will compromise the user experience from Pearson - think regional, not local.

AoD

The Pearson Connects report states that there are 300 000 people working in and around the region, that's 150,000,000 trips (if we count commute in to and out from work, and use a 5 day work week for 50 weeks a year), *caveat most airport area jobs are not typical 9-5, 5 days a week M-F jobs. Contrast that to 40,000,000 passengers that passed through Pearson. So we simply can not ignore the worker commuter portion of the equation.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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The Pearson Connects report states that there are 300 000 people working in and around the region, that's 150,000,000 trips (if we count commute in to and out from work, and use a 5 day work week for 50 weeks a year), *caveat most airport area jobs are not typical 9-5, 5 days a week M-F jobs. Contrast that to 40,000,000 passengers that passed through Pearson. So we simply can not ignore the worker commuter portion of the equation.

Except that it is a rather diffuse region and the locational decision of the transit hub should be driven by the airport. That's not to say the transportation network should not support the broader area, but it would not have made much, if any sense to put in a higher order service (HSR, metro, whatnot) that would not be in a position to support that.

AoD
 

CDL.TO

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The "Airport Zone" referred to in that report is larger than the entire Town of Oakville.
 

TheTigerMaster

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Except that it is a rather diffuse region and the locational decision of the transit hub should be driven by the airport. That's not to say the transportation network should not support the broader area, but it would not have made much, if any sense to put in a higher order service (HSR, metro, whatnot) that would not be in a position to support that.

AoD

We see this reflected in the Transit City EAs, which showed the airport having dismal LRT/subway demand, only a few hundred people a peak hour. That's lower demand than I've seen for any other proposal in Toronto or the GTA.

I'm curious about how other airports, such as London, justify having multiple rail connections to the airport.
 

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