[Woodbridge_Heights]

Still none of them have the check in terminal literally off site across the street from the airport grounds.

An alternative would be to convert the parking garage into the check in terminal. Move parking close to the transit hub location (see existing value park parking lot surrounding the Alt hotel/people mover station.) and have those people use a people mover to get to the terminal.

 

[guavadelic]

@Reecemartin posted a video today discussing what a Pearson transit hub could look like. I thought it was pretty well thought through. Connecting the Kitchener Line in this way would open the potential for very good connections for KW to the airport.

The one suggestion I would make is reserving the first above-ground level for platforms for future rail transit that would enter the station on elevated guideway (407 line/Ontario Line "loop", potential RT line to Mississauga).

A Pearson Transit Hub would be such a slam-dunk infrastructure project that it remains really baffling why solid plans for it havent been announced yet. Reece's video was interesting to watch yet so frustrating at the same time. A version of this should be in the works/built already but knowing the history of transit here they'll wait until road system in the immediate area completely collapses before acting.
I liked his proposal about the heavy rail tunnel through-line from the KW line and under airport road but I see it as highly unlikely. We'll propably get a short spur from the KW line if we're lucky.

 

[rbt]

A Pearson Transit Hub would be such a slam-dunk infrastructure project that it remains really baffling why solid plans for it havent been announced yet.

Money. GTAA was originally intending to pay the bulk of the cost with expectations to recoup it by building several large office buildings on airport land adjacent to the station. See Schiphol airport for an example of this.

Then the pandemic happened: Pearson no longer had excess credit to fund expansion and tenant demand for office space evaporated. Both ends of the business case eroded.

It if happens now, government funding will need to be involved to build the station and not just extending the lines. Ford feels strongly that private developers should be building GO stations, though that's only resulted in commitments with open-ended timelines and not actual construction (Woodbine, Innisfil, Park Lawn).

There's also the quirk that Canadian government tries really hard not to providing funding to large airports. So if they do build the transit station, many of the benefits of a combined security/customs/check-in space for T1/T3 may not be realized.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

A Pearson Transit Hub would be such a slam-dunk infrastructure project that it remains really baffling why solid plans for it havent been announced yet. Reece's video was interesting to watch yet so frustrating at the same time. A version of this should be in the works/built already but knowing the history of transit here they'll wait until road system in the immediate area completely collapses before acting.
I liked his proposal about the heavy rail tunnel through-line from the KW line and under airport road but I see it as highly unlikely. We'll propably get a short spur from the KW line if we're lucky.

That it is such a slam dunk project is precisely the reason why it's taken so long to be built. That's how transit projects work in the GTA.

It really should have been part of the original Master Plan redevelopment from the late 90's/mid 2000's

Personal note I'd really like for this station to become a major transport station, not just a weigh station for people bound for/coming from the airport. Meaning HSR and conventional passenger rail service, GO regional service, and local service. Plus redeveloping the surrounding area businesses into something conducive to people taking public transit to their jobs.

 

[Dan416]

I wish Montreal trains would come to Pearson instead of going to Oakville. Or even Port Credit. As it stands I'll keep going to Union to catch the train to Montreal

 

[gweed123]

Really like Reece's ideas, and I've had many of the same thoughts. One of the things I'd like to see incorporated into a future Pearson Central is a dedicated platform for cross-border Amtrak trains.

The idea would be that Amtrak trains to New York and Chicago would start their journey at Pearson instead of at Union (with such good transit connections from Union to Pearson in this scenario, it's not like it would be tough to get there). Passengers would go through a US border pre-clearance area like at the airport itself, and then would be directed to a separate waiting area and ultimately a segregated platform. Pearson has the unique ability to leverage the US pre-clearance staff already working at the airport, so staffing shouldn't be an issue. From there, Amtrak trains would operate non-stop to Detroit and Niagara Falls NY, and would effectively be sealed until they crossed the border.

The path to Chicago would be pretty obvious, but the path to New York would involve using the Kitchener corridor and then transferring onto the CN Halton Sub, and connecting to the Lakeshore West line just west of Burlington Station.

One of the services that would need to go hand-in-hand with this would be two "International Shuttles" that would basically be DMUs that would run between Windsor and Detroit, and Niagara Falls ON and Niagara Falls NY. You would board at each station like any regular station, but upon reaching the other side you would immediately be directed to a Customs booth. Once you passed through that, you would be able to access any connecting services at any of those stations (Via, Amtrak, GO, etc). I could see those services becoming popular options to cross the border even without the enhanced Amtrak service.

For Amtrak though, what this shuttle service would allow is for passengers coming from or going to points in between Pearson and the border is for them to take either Via to Windsor or GO to Niagara Falls ON, then take the international shuttle to cross the border, then catch the Amtrak train coming from Canada on the US side, and board it as a domestic train. All of this would have the net effect of eliminating the border delay with trans-border trips. For the return trip, passengers would clear Canadian customs at Pearson just like they do now when arriving on an international flight.

In short, building a brand new train terminal from scratch is an excellent opportunity to build a proper international rail facility, leveraging existing staffing and border inspection logistics. If the US is going to get serious about building HSR or even Higher Speed Rail, we need to make sure we have the appropriate infrastructure to connect into that network, and to make international travel as seamless as possible.

 

[just east of the creek]

I wish Montreal trains would come to Pearson instead of going to Oakville. Or even Port Credit. As it stands I'll keep going to Union to catch the train to Montreal

Not sure I follow that . Montreal trains begin and terminate at Union. If you are taking VIA to Oakville, that is a separate train (usually Toronto to Windsor). Most of us just take the GO to make the connection. Just as we UP downtown often from the airport on business.

 

[Dan416]

Not sure I follow that . Montreal trains begin and terminate at Union. If you are taking VIA to Oakville, that is a separate train (usually Toronto to Windsor). Most of us just take the GO to make the connection. Just as we UP downtown often from the airport on business.

Maybe you’re right. I remember searching from Oakville to Montreal and there are results but it may have been a transfer.

 

[afransen]

Why would it be desirable to subject oneself to Pearson pre-clearance to board a train?

 

[guavadelic]

Why would it be desirable to subject oneself to Pearson pre-clearance to board a train?

You wouldnt need pre-clearance to take trains at the Transit Centre. Only would be required if there are cross-border Amtrak trains.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Not clear to me why someone would subject themself to the airport grind then board a four-hour-ish train to the USA. I'm all for connecting GO, and VIA's lakeshore and Kitchener corridors to Pearson, but if you're already in the airline system, just fly to Detroit or Chicago, I think.

 

[EnviroTO]

Pre-clearance to the US makes sense in Montreal, Niagara Falls, or Vancouver, but Toronto is quite a ways from the border so the train would miss the opportunity to serve places along the way. Pre-clearance is better than post clearance for that kind of distance though... if something happens they just need to go through clearance again vs the post-clearance situation where if something happens people are in a country they haven't been cleared to enter yet.

 

[jcam]

Really like Reece's ideas, and I've had many of the same thoughts. One of the things I'd like to see incorporated into a future Pearson Central is a dedicated platform for cross-border Amtrak trains.

The idea would be that Amtrak trains to New York and Chicago would start their journey at Pearson instead of at Union (with such good transit connections from Union to Pearson in this scenario, it's not like it would be tough to get there). Passengers would go through a US border pre-clearance area like at the airport itself, and then would be directed to a separate waiting area and ultimately a segregated platform. Pearson has the unique ability to leverage the US pre-clearance staff already working at the airport, so staffing shouldn't be an issue. From there, Amtrak trains would operate non-stop to Detroit and Niagara Falls NY, and would effectively be sealed until they crossed the border.

The path to Chicago would be pretty obvious, but the path to New York would involve using the Kitchener corridor and then transferring onto the CN Halton Sub, and connecting to the Lakeshore West line just west of Burlington Station.

One of the services that would need to go hand-in-hand with this would be two "International Shuttles" that would basically be DMUs that would run between Windsor and Detroit, and Niagara Falls ON and Niagara Falls NY. You would board at each station like any regular station, but upon reaching the other side you would immediately be directed to a Customs booth. Once you passed through that, you would be able to access any connecting services at any of those stations (Via, Amtrak, GO, etc). I could see those services becoming popular options to cross the border even without the enhanced Amtrak service.

For Amtrak though, what this shuttle service would allow is for passengers coming from or going to points in between Pearson and the border is for them to take either Via to Windsor or GO to Niagara Falls ON, then take the international shuttle to cross the border, then catch the Amtrak train coming from Canada on the US side, and board it as a domestic train. All of this would have the net effect of eliminating the border delay with trans-border trips. For the return trip, passengers would clear Canadian customs at Pearson just like they do now when arriving on an international flight.

In short, building a brand new train terminal from scratch is an excellent opportunity to build a proper international rail facility, leveraging existing staffing and border inspection logistics. If the US is going to get serious about building HSR or even Higher Speed Rail, we need to make sure we have the appropriate infrastructure to connect into that network, and to make international travel as seamless as possible.

Your shuttle, in Windsor at least, has been solved by the announcement 3 days ago about extending Amtrak's train to the Windsor VIA station. article here

 

[gweed123]

Not clear to me why someone would subject themself to the airport grind then board a four-hour-ish train to the USA. I'm all for connecting GO, and VIA's lakeshore and Kitchener corridors to Pearson, but if you're already in the airline system, just fly to Detroit or Chicago, I think.

It's not to facilitate train-plane transfers, but rather to be able to build a segregated trans-border train facility within a new terminal that is being built anyway. It can be built properly from the ground up. Shoehorning such a segregated area into Union Station would be virtually impossible without building another separated UP-style concourse. Plus at Pearson, you already have dozens of US Customs officials on duty at any given time, so being deployed to T1, T3, or Pearson Central wouldn't be a big deal.

Pre-clearance to the US makes sense in Montreal, Niagara Falls, or Vancouver, but Toronto is quite a ways from the border so the train would miss the opportunity to serve places along the way. Pre-clearance is better than post clearance for that kind of distance though... if something happens they just need to go through clearance again vs the post-clearance situation where if something happens people are in a country they haven't been cleared to enter yet.

Yes, it's a bit further than most, but like I mentioned with those shuttles in place people from points in between Pearson and the border could take another form of transit (GO, Via, etc) to the end point and then catch the shuttle across, and board the train on the US side.

And with regards to the 'if something happens people haven't been cleared yet', as far as I know Canada does not have any border pre-clearance operations at any airports outside of Canada, so technically every international flight destined for Canada that is flying over Canadian airspace is filled with people who haven't been cleared yet. Any emergency landing would result in a similar situation to an emergency aboard a US-originated train bound for Pearson Central.

Your shuttle, in Windsor at least, has been solved by the announcement 3 days ago about extending Amtrak's train to the Windsor VIA station. article here

Yes I saw that, that's awesome news. The track connections will be there, now it's just time to actually operate the service. Niagara would theoretically be easier to set up, because the Whirlpool Rapid Bridge (and all of the other bridges along the Niagara River) are owned and operated by the Niagara Falls Bridge Commission, so it would make sense to have them operate it. This new service would only be "competing" with other bridges run by the same entity.

Detroit-Windsor is more complicated, because each crossing is owned by a different entity. The Ambassador Bridge is privately owned, the Detroit-Windsor is owned by both cities, and the Gordie Howe Bridge will be run by the Windsor-Detroit Bridge Authority (a Crown Corporation). Who would operate this Windsor-Detroit service would be anyone's guess.

 

[guavadelic]

The Globe published a letter from one of Pearson's VPs where a future VIA HFR connection at Pearson was discussed.

Re “Why Air Canada wants more Canadians to take the train” (Report on Business, Aug. 7): Analyst John Gradek wonders why Toronto Pearson “hasn’t associated itself with any of these consortiums for Via’s HFR project” or included stations in its development plans. I wish he’d asked us.

In April, we submitted a proposal to the high-frequency rail project team for bidders’ consideration. It offers our partnership on an HFR station that could bring direct HFR and legacy Via services to Canada’s busiest airport. This would enable integrated ticketing, make travel more competitive for underserved communities, reduce overall emissions and complement Union Station, Canada’s busiest multimodal transit hub.

The proposal was framed as part of our 10-year strategic plan, offering to make our staff and consultants available to move talks forward. As we understand it, the HFR team is now considering three bids for the project.

We agree that including an airport connection in the project scope would build stronger ridership and better connections for Canadians.

Karen Mazurkewich Vice-president, stakeholder relations and communications, Toronto Pearson

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/letters/article-how-to-fix-debate-in-parliament/