Richard White

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If we look at youth registration much of the country it's down big time for hockey and up for soccer does that mean soccer will over take hockey at all levels no it does not.

That is less of a desire not to play hockey than is about cost.

Soccer is cheap and easy to play whereas hockey is notoriously expensive. As my father says, when he was young in the 70s parents could enroll their kids into hockey relatively cheaply. Now it is thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars per year for kids to play hockey (that's just one kid).

Most families cannot afford to have their kids play hockey in any sort of league anymore.
 

sixrings

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If we look at youth registration much of the country it's down big time for hockey and up for soccer does that mean soccer will over take hockey at all levels no it does not.
Oh it does. Hockey is in trouble. The cost of entry is too expensive and there’s not enough rinks making it more expensive. In twenty years things can vastly change. As well the fact is that the nhl never made it big in the states. But mls is growing. If there’s more and more soccer enrolment and more and more mls on tv then then hockey is going to have a battle on its hand lane even within Canada. I say that as someone who reads the hockey sweater to his toddler nightly. Things change.
 
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sixrings

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Baseball as a whole is on the downswing but the Blue Jays and Baseball in Canada are having a resurgence. You can attribute this probably to the teams that were assembled for 2015 and 2016 for their playoff runs. That usually sparks an uptick in kids enrollment as well. I definitely don't think people go to leafs games and raptors games 'to be seen'. Those games do sellout though more often as there's significantly fewer games and even fewer seats available. Even at just 20,000 tickets available and fewer games, the Leafs still don't sell out everytime. their average sellout pct is 80 as per ESPN attendance tracker.

i don't understand how you can say 1 major league team outclasses another when they're vastly different.
If you do not accept the fact that court side seats in the nba are the place to be seen I don’t know what to say to you. How much do nba court side seats cost versus the best jays tickets? It’s why the nba has so many well known celebrities such as Denzil, Jack, drake, jay-z, Leo, sandler, Damon at their games. The nba is cool. The cool kids go to see their favourite team play. The masses go partially because the cool kids go. I am not one for celebrity culture but the Oscars were two weeks ago and people are still talking about it. These things matter. I can’t tell you whose a baseball fan other than max kellerman and Bob Mccowan.

You are correct they are vastly different. One is an aging demographic while the nba is a younger demographic and the leafs are holding the financial demographic. I see the same people at the bingo club that I do at the baseball game.
 

Towered

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That is less of a desire not to play hockey than is about cost.

Soccer is cheap and easy to play whereas hockey is notoriously expensive. As my father says, when he was young in the 70s parents could enroll their kids into hockey relatively cheaply. Now it is thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars per year for kids to play hockey (that's just one kid).

Most families cannot afford to have their kids play hockey in any sort of league anymore.

This right here. As someone with kids, the thought of getting any of them into hockey doesn't even enter consideration. Soccer, on the other hand, absolutely! Here, take a ball and kick it around a field at a school or park. Cost - 15 bucks for the ball. Can't beat that.
 

PinkLucy

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If you do not accept the fact that court side seats in the nba are the place to be seen I don’t know what to say to you. How much do nba court side seats cost versus the best jays tickets? It’s why the nba has so many well known celebrities such as Denzil, Jack, drake, jay-z, Leo, sandler, Damon at their games. The nba is cool. The cool kids go to see their favourite team play. The masses go partially because the cool kids go. I am not one for celebrity culture but the Oscar’s were two weeks ago and people are still talking about it. These things matter. I can’t tell you whose a baseball fan other than max kellerman and Bob Mccowan.

You are correct they are vastly different. One is an aging demographic while the nba is a younger demographic and the leafs are holding the financial demographic. I see the same people at the bingo club that I do at the baseball game.
Tom Hanks is a baseball fan. So is Stephen King. Geddy Lee has season tickets at the Rogers Centre. And don’t forget Toronto’s own celebrity “granny” behind home plate. 😜

But yeah, none of them are cool I guess. I’m not influenced by so called influencers, however, because I’m just an old baseball fan. And an old Rush fan.
 
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Bogtrotter

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Tom Hanks is a baseball fan. So is Stephen King. Geddy Lee has season tickets at the Rogers Centre. And don’t forget Toronto’s own celebrity “granny” behind home plate. 😜

But yeah, one of them are cool I guess. I’m not influenced by so called influencers, however, because I’m just an old baseball fan. And an old Rush faCanasketball
Good to see Geddy wearing his mask at the opener- albeit a chin diaper at times. Never liked basketball much.
 

sixrings

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Tom Hanks is a baseball fan. So is Stephen King. Geddy Lee has season tickets at the Rogers Centre. And don’t forget Toronto’s own celebrity “granny” behind home plate. 😜

But yeah, one of them are cool I guess. I’m not influenced by so called influencers, however, because I’m just an old baseball fan. And an old Rush fan.
Again I’m a baseball fan born in the 70s. But times are changing and all those people are in their bingo years.

Anyways the Rogers centre is anything but a dump.
 

C-mac

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Anyways the Rogers centre is anything but a dump.

Not according to all the sights that rate MLB stadiums. It's generally speaking 27th behind Oakland and Tropicana. A few sites have it at 25, but most will rank it at 27th.

Players don't like playing it either from what I understand.
 

JMSRead

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If you do not accept the fact that court side seats in the nba are the place to be seen I don’t know what to say to you. How much do nba court side seats cost versus the best jays tickets? It’s why the nba has so many well known celebrities such as Denzil, Jack, drake, jay-z, Leo, sandler, Damon at their games. The nba is cool. The cool kids go to see their favourite team play. The masses go partially because the cool kids go. I am not one for celebrity culture but the Oscar’s were two weeks ago and people are still talking about it. These things matter. I can’t tell you whose a baseball fan other than max kellerman and Bob Mccowan.

You are correct they are vastly different. One is an aging demographic while the nba is a younger demographic and the leafs are holding the financial demographic. I see the same people at the bingo club that I do at the baseball game.

Screenshot 2022-04-13 at 3.08.29 AM.png
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Baseball's fanbase is ageing and its popularity has declined overall, yes. But there's massive buzz about the Jays this year. Both of those things can be true. I'm not being anecdotal, look at the TV numbers. And look at attendance this year, I'd be stunned if it doesn't end up being impressive. I love the Raptors, not knocking them, but the Jays draw dramatically better than they do on TV. You're really misreading the vibe of sports fans in Toronto right now if you're writing the Jays off as irrelevant.
 

sixrings

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View attachment 392490View attachment 392489

Baseball's fanbase is ageing and its popularity has declined overall, yes. But there's massive buzz about the Jays this year. Both of those things can be true. I'm not being anecdotal, look at the TV numbers. And look at attendance this year, I'd be stunned if it doesn't end up being impressive. I love the Raptors, not knocking them, but the Jays draw dramatically better than they do on TV. You're really misreading the vibe of sports fans in Toronto right now if you're writing the Jays off as irrelevant.
Surely those are national numbers. But people in Regina done buy tickets. Neither do people in Charlottetown. Perhaps on a trip but they do not make up a significant amount of the ticket buying. Somehow the jays and raptors have branded themselves Canadas team and even though people outside of the gta often do not like the city they still cheer for these two teams.

Also if the attendance goes up does that not speak to my initial argument that winning is what will grow fans not a new stadium with a view. So again spending an extra 50+ million a year in payroll to be competitive would make us more competitive and grow the fan base. If you question that spending results in winning please look at the dodgers who are now routinely in the playoffs after new owners decided to open their wallets. Or the Yankees and Red Sox which yearly spend blindly. Sure other teams can randomly win but with no salary cap those who spend the most tend to be the most successful.

For too many years the jays have conceded that they are in the yankee and Red Sox division so why even try.
 

Richard White

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Also if the attendance goes up does that not speak to my initial argument that winning is what will grow fans not a new stadium with a view. So again spending an extra 50+ million a year in payroll to be competitive would make us more competitive and grow the fan base. If you question that spending results in winning please look at the dodgers who are now routinely in the playoffs after new owners decided to open their wallets. Or the Yankees and Red Sox which yearly spend blindly. Sure other teams can randomly win but with no salary cap those who spend the most tend to be the most successful.

You can spend all the money you want, but if the stadium is crap the players won't come.

This is what is happening right now, there are alot of players who do not want to play in Toronto simply because of the stadium. Players would prefer to play in stadiums with real grass, better views and modern facilities, not an aging stadium with outdated facilities and AstroTurf.

You need something to attract star players not just money.
 

SubHuman

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... Anyways the Rogers centre is anything but a dump.
"Dump" is more than a bit of an exaggeration.
https://www.blogto.com/slideshows/new-rogers-centre-upgrades/19141
The old Varsity Stadium, in the years before it was finally condemned and demolished, was decaying and decrepit, and might have deserved that description.
In the late 1970s/early 1980s my first impressions of places like Maple Leaf Gardens (with its urinal troughs in the men's rooms) and Tiger Stadium were that they were grubby and probably too old to be easily refurbished into any kind of modern state, but the old Varsity Stadium was definitely one or two more steps below that.
 
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Richard White

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"Dump" is more than a bit of an exaggeration.
https://www.blogto.com/slideshows/new-rogers-centre-upgrades/19141
The old Varsity Stadium, in the years before it was finally condemned and demolished, was decaying and decrepit, might have deserved that description.
In the early 1980s my first impressions of places like Maple Leaf Gardens (with its urinal troughs in the men's rooms) and Tiger Stadium were that they were grubby and probably too old to be easily refurbished into any kind of modern state, but the old Varsity Stadium was definitely one two more steps below that.

Keep in mind, that when the leafs left the Gardens it was well beyond its useful life. It was at the point where it was more akin to Ted Reeves arena than it was an NHL arena.
 

sixrings

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Surely those are national numbers. But people in Regina done buy tickets. Neither do people in Charlottetown. Perhaps on a trip but they do not make up a significant amount of the ticket buying. Somehow the jays and raptors have branded themselves Canadas team and even though people outside of the gta often do not like the city they still cheer for these two teams.
You can spend all the money you want, but if the stadium is crap the players won't come.

This is what is happening right now, there are alot of players who do not want to play in Toronto simply because of the stadium. Players would prefer to play in stadiums with real grass, better views and modern facilities, not an aging stadium with outdated facilities and AstroTurf.

You need something to attract star players not just money.
Players want to play with better views. You don’t need to reach just because you want a view. Are you telling me good players would rather live and play in Cleveland aka the mistake by the lake because of the grand city view versus live in Toronto. That’s insane and insecure. Sure there are players who want to play on grass because of injury reasons. But I have never ever heard anyone say anything about a view. Most players go where they are paid the most in a non salary cap league.

Could someone explain to me how fake versus real grass affects a pitchers decision where to play. In the worst case scenario which I don’t subscribe to couldn’t we stack a team with quality pitchers.
 

sixrings

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Players want to play with better views. You don’t need to reach just because you want a view. Are you telling me good players would rather live and play in Cleveland aka the mistake by the lake because of the grand city view versus live in Toronto. That’s insane and insecure. Sure there are players who want to play on grass because of injury reasons. But I have never ever heard anyone say anything about a view. Most players go where they are paid the most in a non salary cap league.
The stadium still effects the T.V product.
Damn it this stadium looks terrible on tv. I’m changing the channel. Maybe baseballs ever lengthening of games is what is hurting overall ratings or the fact that the game is just so slow paced in a society which is faster and faster paced or the fact that espn, which has more and more influence from YouTube and the internet, heavily covers basketball and football but rarely mentions baseball at all.
 

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