Thorsell can't admit his legacy project has faults... his successor can

I don't think Thorsell could admit to having allowed such a failure in his legacy project. His successor won't be bound by that restriction.

I have a feeling that once the new CEO takes office, he'll address some of these concerns in the ROM's capital budget.

The cladding is actually quite valuable as is and can be sold off as cladding or sold for recycling.

I continue to think the best solution would be to clad it in white glass which would allow for LEDs to be installed underneath, creating a glowing crystal at night and a glossy one in the day.

The Stair of Wonders, as the ROM's main vertical travel point and used by every visitor needs to get a complete overhaul. It feels and looks like a fire escape with many of the panels and screws scratched or otherwise installed with poor workmanship.

My prescription for the Stair of Wonders would be:

The major issue with this space is the lighting. It shows off the blank and dirt prone walls in not so flattering ways. Take the Spirit House's lighting and apply it to the Stair of Wonders. Safety may be a concern so light up each step as to comply with safety regulations while creating a dramatic effect as you walk up. Allow the lights from the display cases to provide general diffused lighting.

The blast proof doors are there for a reason -- to quarantine every gallery from eachother in the event of fire -- but they can be made to look much more appealing. Clad them in diagonal aluminum slats with diagonal cuts as windows. Install hydraulic hinges because the doors are currently too heavy.

Redo the side panels. The aluminum was dented and their screws chewed up on arrival. It's the epitome of poor workmanship.

Fix the exterior and the Stair of Wonders and you've got a winner. Hopefully Thorsell's successor sees the problems and corrects them.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
The most shocking thing with the ROM is for a building like that to get built at all in Toronto. Definitely a "New City Hall" moment.

AoD
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Every time I come to Toronto I do the walk-about . I imagine it must be a real bonus for architecture students living in this city. I wonder if anyone is doing a thesis on transformational architecture contrasting the AGO with, say, the ROM. You might get more than one thesis out of this pairing.
 
Further frustrated thoughts...

When discussing the ROM, it's difficult to list any things that make the building GOOD...

All it did was bring about a big mess that the ROM management will have to fix down the road. It's unnavigable (exhibits get missed, foot traffic has no specific flow; this was a problem SOLVED in the AGO and CREATED at the ROM...), poorly constructed (even in the front entrance look at the chipped paint, the drywall boards that do not line up with eachother on the ceiling/walls; loose screws, etc.), the mismatched exterior siding which also looks cheap, and the crystal addition's lack of adaptibility to future expansions, as WELL as how distracting it is; it attention-whores itself and makes it difficult to focus on the exhibits.

I feel bad for the people running the ROM in the future who have to (and they WILL have to) do something about this big lump.

Even if the siding was different and it was clad in a material that actually reasonably contrasts with the stone exterior in an attractive manner, I wouldn't be able to forgive the interior of this building. The spent millions upon millions of dollars and ended up with a redevelopment that chopped up the interior flow and rhythm of the existing building, creating a new mess instead of fixing one. Please just at LEAST give the exterior some white fritted glass where the aluminum siding is. That would be stunning.

PS. this is coming from someone who is not a Gehry fan and was surprised at how wonderful the AGO turned out, especially on the inside and as an overall project of reuniting many old additions to a building. If anything I prefer Libeskind's work in general, so that's my bias if you wanted to know it. Still not a fan of the starchitects though.
 
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SP!RE said:
When discussing the ROM, it's difficult to list any things that make the building GOOD...

All it did was bring about a big mess that the ROM management will have to fix down the road. It's unnavigable (exhibits get missed, foot traffic has no specific flow; this was a problem SOLVED in the AGO and CREATED at the ROM...), poorly constructed (even in the front entrance look at the chipped paint, the drywall boards that do not line up with eachother on the ceiling/walls; loose screws, etc.), the mismatched exterior siding which also looks cheap, and the crystal addition's lack of adaptibility to future expansions, as WELL as how distracting it is; it attention-whores itself and makes it difficult to focus on the exhibits.

I feel bad for the people running the ROM in the future who have to (and they WILL have to) do something about this big lump.

Even if the siding was different and it was clad in a material that actually reasonably contrasts with the stone exterior in an attractive manner, I wouldn't be able to forgive the interior of this building. The spent millions upon millions of dollars and ended up with a redevelopment that chopped up the interior flow and rhythm of the existing building, creating a new mess instead of fixing one. Please just at LEAST give the exterior some white fritted glass where the aluminum siding is. That would be stunning.

PS. this is coming from someone who is not a Gehry fan and was surprised at how wonderful the AGO turned out, especially on the inside and as an overall project of reuniting many old additions to a building. If anything I prefer Libeskind's work in general, so that's my bias if you wanted to know it. Still not a fan of the starchitects though.
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I was enthusiastic about this project when first announced, and I visited the construction site whenever I was in the city,- all those weird connections. At a certain point I started to become concerned that the complexity of the contruction might start eating up the overall budget. Like Spire, I think the finished product is flawed by cheap and unnattractive finishing. Sometimes I just stare at those angled window wells and think, what the .... Still, with all itt's flaws, it's become an instant icon, and it's impossible to think of the Toronto image without it now.
 
SP!RE said:
The spent millions upon millions of dollars and ended up with a redevelopment that chopped up the interior flow and rhythm of the existing building, creating a new mess instead of fixing one.
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I strongly disagree. If anything, the Crystal addition actually created a sensible traffic circuit.

I was a member so I visited the ROM twice a week for 2 years and the flow from one exhibit to another finally makes sense. A loop would have been completed if the North Crystal had been built but as is, it's a major improvement connecting galleries in a meaningful order telling a story as you go along. The previous building was marked by dead ends where you had to back track to get to different galleries.

There are certainly cosmetic challenges like I detailed above but of the ROM's problems, traffic flow is not one of them.
 
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I'm not convinced but I will watch carefully in my next visit. I noticed some areas were packed and others were empty. Plus, none of it made sense to me, getting around.

Even if there was interior flow, this project would still be quite unfortunate.

Does it have shock factor? Absolutely. Is shock factor easy to do? For sure.
 
I hope the cladding will be addressed in time because it has generated too much controversy beyond the other issues. This landmark should have been an unqualified success without any flaws apparent at a casual glance. "Instant landmark" architecture like this is rare; it's puzzling that this end result would be tolerated. It's like everyone became intoxicated on the Libeskind design and they missed the key detail that is cladding.
 
SP!RE said:
It's unnavigable (exhibits get missed, foot traffic has no specific flow; this was a problem SOLVED in the AGO and CREATED at the ROM ............. The spent millions upon millions of dollars and ended up with a redevelopment that chopped up the interior flow and rhythm of the existing building, creating a new mess instead of fixing one.
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If you'll recall, the 1984 Terrace Galleries blocked the space between the 1914 and 1933 heritage wings without being connected to them. The Crystal, which replaced them, connects both wings ( at the second and third floors ), and adds a new fourth floor with two galleries. The original plan of expansion - when the Museum opened in 1914 - called for a linking-wing at the north end of the site, which is what the Crystal is.

On the second floor, the Birds and Discovery galleries in the west wing now lead into the Mammals and Dinosaurs in the Crystal ( which will, eventually, lead into a new Earth and Early Life gallery in the east wing ). The east wing has a new Minerals gallery ( the adjacent Gems and Gold gallery opens in a couple of weeks ) and the new Biodiversity gallery in the centre block completes the circuit of Natural History galleries on that floor.

On the third floor, the Egypt gallery in the west wing now leads into the Middle East, South Asia, and Africa/Americas/Asia-Pacific galleries in the Crystal - which leads into the European galleries in the east wing. When the new 20th Century Design and Byzantium galleries are installed in the centre block they'll lead through to the new Rome gallery in the west wing - completing the circuit of World Culture galleries on that floor.

The Crystal's actually a very good example of design as a problem-solving process - it sets up a pedestrian flow through a sequence of galleries enabling the Museum's collections to tell their story in a logical way.
 
^ I was hoping you would step in because I know you'd explain the circuit that the Crystal created better than I. I know the ROM like the back of my hand after the renovations, not so much before them.
 
I agree with US, in that I think the internal flow of the museum has been greatly improved with the project. We often overlook the other aspects which enhanced the heritage of the site as well, such as re-opening windows, etc.

For me as well, I find that collision of the metal and the brick brings an attention to both. One is more likely to look closely at the patterns of brick when they are so much in contrast to their surrounding. In some cases, the metal is almost pointing to the brickwork as if it is saying "look here"!
 
Other wins in the reno

Archivist said:
I agree with US, in that I think the internal flow of the museum has been greatly improved with the project. We often overlook the other aspects which enhanced the heritage of the site as well, such as re-opening windows, etc.

For me as well, I find that collision of the metal and the brick brings an attention to both. One is more likely to look closely at the patterns of brick when they are so much in contrast to their surrounding. In some cases, the metal is almost pointing to the brickwork as if it is saying "look here"!
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Without belabouring the cladding and finishing discussions, I think this renovation was great for the museum in many ways. A few other wins, in my mind:

1. The Philosopher's Walk wing -- the Asian galleries are way better, and opening the windows to embrace PW and now the Telus theatre is great.

2. The restaurants and store are much, much better -- serving their role in generating revenue and actually being nice to visit.

3. The exhibition space in the basement allows for much more regular and more substantive roadshows.

4. The drive to build the Crystal has meant a huge re-do of many parts of the old museum that were getting tired and in need of refreshing (e.g. the Maiasaur, the kids' areas, the dinosaur gallery and its hokey dioramas, etc., etc.)

I think that the museum is much better than before.
 
My instincts, given the lull in new gallery openings, tell me they're running low on funds. Dig deep in your pockets, boys and girls.
 
gabe said:
Louis Vuitton store at the Crystal in Vegas is covered in over 4,000 LEDs :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfTGSeNMJrc&feature=player_embedded

ROM still is the best building in the city. I just wish the Crystal had the same kind of frame-less glass and cladding the Crystal in Vegas has:(
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That Las Vegas building is one of the ugliest things I have ever seen in my life.

As to the ROM--I like the shape as a shape, but it's not that distinctive from the Denver Museum. It achieves a frisson the Denver structure does not through contrast with the handsome (if not particularly dynamic) older building, however.
 
Ladies Mile said:
That Las Vegas building is one of the ugliest things I have ever seen in my life.

As to the ROM--I like the shape as a shape, but it's not that distinctive from the Denver Museum. It achieves a frisson the Denver structure does not through contrast with the handsome (if not particularly dynamic) older building, however.
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The new entrance to the ROM reminds me of side door to a nondescript suburban mall. Maybe it's sentimentality, but entering the ROM through the Rotunda was special. You can talk about flow, and such, all you want, but the Crystal is a poke in the eye, an arresting artifact in itself. With all it's flaws, Toronto is the better for it.
 
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