junctionist

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Wouldn't it be nice to have a Farmer's Market similar to the one in downtown Portland (PSU) that extends over a number of blocks on the weekend and is in "off-hours" a linear park? Wouldn't the open space behind the SLM, combined with Crombie Park to the east be perfect? This would be a totally pedestrian environment and would not require any street closures. The one in Portland is one of the best.View attachment 345275View attachment 345284

Front Street would be more spacious and central for a market square. It would be more akin to a traditional European market square thanks to the fact that it's mixed use in nature. It's also flanked by centuries-old landmarks like St. Lawrence Market and the Gooderham Building.

With the vista of the Gooderham Building and the downtown skyline, healthy street trees in silva cells, granite brick paving, and some sort of monument, it could be an iconic public space in North America. The storefront restaurants and pubs could have large patios spilling onto the square.
 
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Rufus8

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When the North Market re-opens there will be a clearer picture of opportunities for local streetscape, until we actually see what the effect is going to be (in real time not just on paper) it is hard to imagine. The whole Front & Jarvis corner will change again and the walk way from Front to King will be open and functioning better. We need parking and traffic management downtown and not just for Market Day. The roads have to available to cars and we have to have parking, that's just reality. (and this from a cyclist!)
 

Northern Light

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Photos taken yesterday, August 31st, 2021:

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junctionist

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When the North Market re-opens there will be a clearer picture of opportunities for local streetscape, until we actually see what the effect is going to be (in real time not just on paper) it is hard to imagine. The whole Front & Jarvis corner will change again and the walk way from Front to King will be open and functioning better. We need parking and traffic management downtown and not just for Market Day. The roads have to available to cars and we have to have parking, that's just reality. (and this from a cyclist!)

I agree that some vehicular access may be necessary. The question is to what extent is it necessary at this particular location. There are no service entrances to any of the buildings on Front Street between Jarvis and Church that residents must use to access underground parking garages.

Do we need a wide traffic sewer with up to 6 lanes of traffic? Is that the highest and best use of a unique old town area? Even something like Front Street's configuration in front of Union Station would be better, where the roadway was narrowed for a new plaza space and used as a food market before the pandemic.

You could take it one step further with the right bollard design to create a space that could be a road on week days and a market square on weekends or in the summer time. There could still be access for service vehicles and vendors at all times, though they would have to yield to pedestrians. The area is very well served by pedestrian infrastructure and transit as is.

The amount of parking available on this part of the road is negligible relative to the large parking garage at the foot of Church Street, a short walk away. Front Street's current road configuration induces demand for driving in the downtown core, which detracts from the city's livability and the economic potential of the St. Lawrence area as an old town area.
 

evandyk

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The amount of parking available on this part of the road is negligible relative to the large parking garage at the foot of Church Street, a short walk away. Front Street's current road configuration induces demand for driving in the downtown core, which detracts from the city's livability and the economic potential of the St. Lawrence area as an old town area.
I just learned this week that there is actually a (bigger than usual) parking subsidy on Saturday mornings. So it's not only the road configuration that is inducing demand.
 

tripwire

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I would have hoped that when designing the new Market North that took in account the merchant parking requirements for the farmer's market (and antique market assuming that also transfers over).
 

Rufus8

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Only thing I can think of is that the prior comment is speaking to the large trucks of the merchants coming to unload/load.
The big deal is the difference between weekday and weekend traffic, both pedestrian and vehicle. When the tented temporary north market was a parking lot, there were few cars using it in the weekday but come the weekend it had a turnover of vehicles within a half hour, same with on street parking. Not every driver sees the point of a parking lot when they are "just running in". The market visitors need parking on Saturday, not so much the rest of the week. Having an adaptable space is more meaningful in this area.
 

jsmith77

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When we had the brutalist building on the site, I feel as though most of the vendor trucks showed up in the wee hours of Saturday morning along Jarvis. Then they’d park along Front to pick up leftover stock, boxes etc. In the tent, i’ve seen some vendors set up on Friday nights, then ride the curb on lower Jarvis at the end of market for pick ups. I should probably try and dig out the plans again to see if they’ve set a loading dock area in the new building

But I think it’s going to be interesting to see how the downtown figures out deliveries as roads get clogged, cycle tracks go up, parking disappears and new builds don’t plan for short term deliveries.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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When we had the brutalist building on the site, I feel as though most of the vendor trucks showed up in the wee hours of Saturday morning along Jarvis. Then they’d park along Front to pick up leftover stock, boxes etc. In the tent, i’ve seen some vendors set up on Friday nights, then ride the curb on lower Jarvis at the end of market for pick ups. I should probably try and dig out the plans again to see if they’ve set a loading dock area in the new building

But I think it’s going to be interesting to see how the downtown figures out deliveries as roads get clogged, cycle tracks go up, parking disappears and new builds don’t plan for short term deliveries.

There is a loading space right behind the parking ramps - shared with St. Lawrence Hall to the north. And from what I can see in the plans - trucks can actually enter/exit the ground floor market hall via Lower Jarvis as well.

AoD
 

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