Wow, what a change. Disappointing to say the least, but what were we to expect? Those who feared that the waterfront would be handed over to private developers (business or residential) is exactly what has happened!
Save for a couple projects, where time and effort have been applied (to at least some degree - ie: George Brown, Tridel's 3XN project), the tone was set early by the Corus building and we will not recover from that. And downwards we go.
 
P1080431.JPG
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WTF? They actually made it even more boring and basic?

Maybe the building is a very smart, self-aware statement. Innovation: Thinking Outside the Box. The box being the building. Maybe they'll put workstations outside?
 
Filip said:
Nothing?

Better than a cost centre churning out suburban office park architecture.
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This is exactly the emotional, irrational rhetoric that leads to moves like Doug's cuts to city council in a bid to somehow expect things to be better as a result - without any basis for how that would ever be the result. Just because a system isn't perfect doesn't mean you just toss them out and hope that the remaining vacuum will be better.

WaterfronToronto does a LOT of work, and there are things such as the design of the Innovation Centre that they don't have complete control over, if any at all. Blame Menkes for this crap, not WT. WaterfronToronto is the only reason we have good spaces along the waterfront or any of this development at all.
 
Filip said:
Nothing?

Better than a cost centre churning out suburban office park architecture.
Click to expand...
Lol i'm sorry, do you want the rest of the waterfront to turn into Humber Bay Shores? (ie: one of the prime examples of failed neighborhood planning)

As much as I despise Waterfront Toronto for their role in this garbage proceeding to be built, they are they exact reason why the rest of the Waterfront hasnt turned into Humber Bay, or the northern section of Queens Quay West.
 
What's with the absurd attitude here. The architecture of this building is reason enough to justify the province firing three members of the board? Have you guys lost your minds?

I agree with Amare...yes, it's not a perfect plan and some of the buildings are mediocre. But taken as a whole, it's turning into a very desirable community, quite unlike anything else in Toronto. Look at the West Donalds...it's spectacular, one of the best new neighbourhoods in this city. I don't doubt that the East Bayfront will end up as successful, provided it moves forward without knee jerk stupidity.
 
Amare said:
Lol i'm sorry, do you want the rest of the waterfront to turn into Humber Bay Shores? (ie: one of the prime examples of failed neighborhood planning)

As much as I despise Waterfront Toronto for their role in this garbage proceeding to be built, they are they exact reason why the rest of the Waterfront hasnt turned into Humber Bay, or the northern section of Queens Quay West.
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What does this have to do with Humber Bay Shores? Wildly different economics at play - cannot be compared in the slightest. Otherwise tell me why I'm not seeing an 80 storey office building in Mississauga Centre - I mean they're both 'downtowns' right?

Instead of funding an agency between three levels of government, including all the necessary overhead of such an agency - why not increase funding for Toronto Planning and create special planning 'zones' where more attention would be paid?

Or how about creating a DRP with actual teeth? Where they can dissect a design and send the developer back to the drawing boards? Are you telling me this power doesn't reside within Toronto? Well it does in Montreal and Vancouver - maybe we should ask them how they 'influence private developers'.
 
Filip said:
What does this have to do with Humber Bay Shores? Wildly different economics at play - cannot be compared in the slightest. Otherwise tell me why I'm not seeing an 80 storey office building in Mississauga Centre - I mean they're both 'downtowns' right?

Instead of funding an agency between three levels of government, including all the necessary overhead of such an agency - why not increase funding for Toronto Planning and create special planning 'zones' where more attention would be paid?

Or how about creating a DRP with actual teeth? Where they can dissect a design and send the developer back to the drawing boards? Are you telling me this power doesn't reside within Toronto? Well it does in Montreal and Vancouver - maybe we should ask them how they 'influence private developers'.
Click to expand...
I was giving a very relevant of example of what could have happened with the rest of the waterfront in Toronto, had it not been Waterfront Toronto who had come up with a vision for Queens Quay. Let's put it this way, if Waterfront Toronto had Humber Bay Shores as part of its mandate you wouldn't have seen it become the failed planned neighborhood that it is today.

Wasn't it you who just stated above that you'd want Waterfront Toronto replaced with nothing? Well, do that and you would end up with the exact same copy paste issue which Toronto loves to repeat which is: uncohesively planned neighbourhoods.

Obviously it would be nice to have a planning department in Toronto that was actually adequately funded; so they could come up with more secondary plans throughout the city with are desperately needed. But seeing as though we're in the midst of the status-quo/cutting era, it will never happen.
 
I'm pretty sure the last rendering posted is virtually the exact same as the previous renderings, it's just in black and white. Nothing has changed (other than adding the "Tenant" signs).

This building will totally come down to the quality and colour of materials (if you look at the most recent docs, it suggests the colour for many of the materials is still undecided). I'm still hopeful.
 
Amare said:
I was giving a very relevant of example of what could have happened with the rest of the waterfront in Toronto, had it not been Waterfront Toronto who had come up with a vision for Queens Quay. Let's put it this way, if Waterfront Toronto had Humber Bay Shores as part of its mandate you wouldn't have seen it become the failed planned neighborhood that it is today.

Wasn't it you who just stated above that you'd want Waterfront Toronto replaced with nothing? Well, do that and you would end up with the exact same copy paste issue which Toronto loves to repeat which is: uncohesively planned neighbourhoods.

Obviously it would be nice to have a planning department in Toronto that was actually adequately funded; so they could come up with more secondary plans throughout the city with are desperately needed. But seeing as though we're in the midst of the status-quo/cutting era, it will never happen.
Click to expand...

1) HBS was 'planned' before Waterfront Toronto existed
2) HBS had secondary plans in place
3) HBS had plans for higher level transit dating back to the late 1980s
4) HBS was planned with midrises

The fact the city couldn't follow its own plans leaves me little doubt WT couldn't have either.

I also don't think it's a failed neighbourhood. Failed neighbourhoods are those where nobody wants to live and property prices are low because of it. Good luck finding a cheap condo here. I am also very excited about my condo having appreciated close to $400k since I bought it. All equity. All mine - greetings from my luxurious failed neighbourhood.

Things could be better, but they're not a failure.
 
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