[Woodbridge_Heights]

I'm not saying it would be better at Finch BUT a lot of the people taking up those seats are coming from up north anyway so, assuming (for the sake of argument) ridership was roughly the same on opening day, isn't it better to have those people getting on in Richmond Hill instead of clogging up roads in buses or cars hauling down to Finch?

As for Woodbridge Heights' comment, the entire ethos behind the TTC for the past 50+ years has been using buses to feed into the subway system; that's kind of the point of having a hierarchy of modes, isn't it? Or we can just put them back in cars if that's more "sustainable"....

We can close the bus bays at Finch Station if you want to do an experiment in sustainability, I guess, unless I'm misundertanding.

All this for roughly 2000 peak hour passengers? Don't you get it? The rationale, unless I misunderstood, for the Yonge extension was that it would take dozens and dozens of buses off the roads and remove a transfer (ohhh that dreaded transfer) for riders who are heading down Yonge to the subway. When in fact the numbers from that study show that only 2000 riders will actually get on at RHC and Langstaff stations, meanwhile still 12000 passengers are still arriving at the subway via some sort of transfer. A transfer that will likely occur from the very same bus routes that we claim were going to be eliminated with the extension. No, instead all we've done is shift the transfer location further up the line by a few km.

Yes I get that it will be "regional transportation hub" what with GO trains, 407 Go transitways, VIVA transitways, and the subway but is the cost of the construction really worth it for 2000 people?

All you are doing is shifting the transfer point North, you are not eliminating many transfers and you are not going to remove as many buses as you claim from the surrounding streets.

 

[11th]

^^^ Yippie a grand total of 2000 peak hour passengers will board RHC and Langstaff station the remaining 12000 will still arrive via connecting routes and still have to transfer to the subway! Let's hold this up as a model for sustainable transit solutions!!!!

According to that, I'm curious as to how many passengers does each station on Yonge get without counting transfers from connecting bus routes.

 

[M II A II R II K]

They'll probably have to quad track it and have express trains along side the regular Yonge route.

 

[Electrify]

Another random thought: Could they short-turn back trains at Finch, Eglinton, etc. so that those further down the line can get on? So perhaps have the 1 - To Finch and the 1A - To Richmond Hill?

 

[GenerationW]

The more I read about the Yonge extension the less enthusiastic I am about it. Even with the DRL (DT to Eglinton) and headway improvements, all trains south of Finch are going to be packed. Something needs to be built to siphon riders south of Finch away from the Yonge line. Unless the eastern DRL goes at least as far north as Sheppard I am going to have a really hard time throwing my support behind the Yonge extension.

I believe the plan is to have some trains go only as far north as Finch.

Yonge has a completed EA, York Region is raring to go, and by most accounts Queen's Park and Ottawa are eager to fund it when the stars align next (after Spadina opens?). Those parties also have a track record of getting Spadina approved in 2005/6 over Toronto's preferred choice. On the other hand, at this point a DRL is little more than a concept that's still being studied. Yonge is going ahead if it gets funded, DRL or no DRL.

Barring a really major funding boost, it's unrealistic to expect phase one of a DRL to hit Sheppard.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I believe the plan is to have some trains go only as far north as Finch.

Yonge has a completed EA, York Region is raring to go, and by most accounts Queen's Park and Ottawa are eager to fund it when the stars align next (after Spadina opens?). Those parties also have a track record of getting Spadina approved in 2005/6 over Toronto's preferred choice. On the other hand, at this point a DRL is little more than a concept that's still being studied. Yonge is going ahead if it gets funded, DRL or no DRL.

Barring a really major funding boost, it's unrealistic to expect phase one of a DRL to hit Sheppard.

Disappointing but not totally unexpected.

It's clear that the trains are going to be completely packed by time they reach Finch. If this line must be built, my preference is to have only every fifth train go north of Finch Ave during rush hour. That would provide a fairly decent headway of eight to ten minutes north of Finch and will allow for some trains to not be full south of Sheppard. Headways can be improved once the DRL is extended to Sheppard and beyond.

 

[rbt]

... though the more I think about it, I seem to recall the Bloor-Yonge constraint is 140 seconds not 110 seconds ... but I haven't looked it up.

Bloor-Yonge is a problem; though apparantly much better with the rush-hour barrier.

Turnbacks at Finch are still a problem. Spadina line should be ready for it when opened.

Lack of rolling stock for 90 second frequencies is a problem. TTC didn't order enough TRs for an entire line at this frequency though the order can probably be extended.

King is probably a problem. Dwells at this station regularaly go above 1 minute. It takes some time for the train to enter/leave the station too.

I wouldn't be surprised if Eglinton becomes a problem with the LRT line potentially adding 15,000 transfers per hour at that station.


Trains could dead-head in the morning at about 60 second frequencies with the new signalling system. That could be useful.

 

[nfitz]

I wouldn't be surprised if Eglinton becomes a problem with the LRT line potentially adding 15,000 transfers per hour at that station.

I was surprised that there wasn't anything in the Eglinton station design to add a second platform (or even safeguard against it), given they added some work for to additional Yonge line platforms at Sheppard station when that line was built.

 

[smallspy]

Bloor-Yonge is a problem; though apparantly much better with the rush-hour barrier.

Turnbacks at Finch are still a problem. Spadina line should be ready for it when opened.

Lack of rolling stock for 90 second frequencies is a problem. TTC didn't order enough TRs for an entire line at this frequency though the order can probably be extended.

King is probably a problem. Dwells at this station regularaly go above 1 minute. It takes some time for the train to enter/leave the station too.

I wouldn't be surprised if Eglinton becomes a problem with the LRT line potentially adding 15,000 transfers per hour at that station.


Trains could dead-head in the morning at about 60 second frequencies with the new signalling system. That could be useful.

Dwell times at stations are a bit of a problem towards lowering the headways between trains, but the biggest issue by far is the layout of the termini. And the ATO/ATC system isn't going to change this.

With the way that Finch Station and the double-crossover to the south are laid out, the closest you can get trains to run together today is about every 105 seconds - 1 minute and 45 seconds. You can't run them closer together because each train has to spend a certain amount of time on the crossover and occupying the circuits, and then the circuits need a certain amount of time after the train has cleared to ensure that it is safe to throw the switches.

You can decrease the headways by alternating termini and using a storage track between the mainlines to turn the trains (that way your constraint is only a single switch on the mainline and its signal circuit, rather than a whole crossover), but realistically you can't run half of the trains to a location south of Finch - all of that capacity is needed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[M II A II R II K]

The Yonge Line currently has 4 saviour train stations during rush hour, so maybe they'd add more.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The Yonge Line currently has 4 saviour train stations during rush hour, so maybe they'd add more.

What's a saviour station? First time I'm hearing this term.

 

[whatever]

I think he means the empty trains they stash along the line to clear overcrowded platforms during rush hour.

 

[bleu]

I'm totally agree with you. It is amazing , how so many people do not undestand this simple logic...

fact is now with Finch as the terminus, peole drive to Finch from 5 km north of it to take the subway. When you extend it to Richmond Hill, then people would think: well, let's live 5km north of Richmond Hill and work downtown. What's next, New Market, so that people in Barrie could take the yonge line to work downtown?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

fact is now with Finch as the terminus, peole drive to Finch from 5 km north of it to take the subway. When you extend it to Richmond Hill, then people would think: well, let's live 5km north of Richmond Hill and work downtown. What's next, New Market, so that people in Barrie could take the yonge line to work downtown?

On the other hand if you can live in Newmarket, Aurora, Rich Hill and get away without having a car why not. In a sense this might encourage less car trips.

 

[Ralph]

fact is now with Finch as the terminus, peole drive to Finch from 5 km north of it to take the subway. When you extend it to Richmond Hill, then people would think: well, let's live 5km north of Richmond Hill and work downtown. What's next, New Market, so that people in Barrie could take the yonge line to work downtown?

Where is this new market?