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rbt

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Looks like this may be happening after all
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...ister-pledges-expansion-into-suburbs-as-part/

Transportation Minister said: “We will be able be able to push the subway [farther] into York, Peel and the Durham regions.”".

The only subway remotely close to Peel region would be this line, I can't see them talking about anything else.

Beware $20B in new promises with no timelines attached. This may be a promise for your grandkids, rather than you.

Ask Ford why Metrolinx hasn't ordered TBMs. Both DRL and the Scarborough extension designs are far enough along to do this. DRL has no encumbrances on existing ownership; exact same situation as Eglinton.

If you want to ride any extension by 2025, TBMs must be ordered now.
 
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Kyle Campbell

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Beware $50B promises with no timelines attached. This may be a promise for your grandkids, rather than you.

Ask Ford why Metrolinx hasn't ordered TBMs. Both DRL and the Scarborough extension designs are far enough along to do this. DRL has no encumbrances on existing ownership; exact same situation as Eglinton.

If you want to ride any extension by 2025, TBMs must be ordered now.

What about the crosstown TBM's, are they still around?
 

rbt

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What about the crosstown TBM's, are they still around?

No. They were scrapped as old and inefficient (rightfully so). TBM tech changes and degrades fast enough that they're simply not worth storing. If you can't keep it digging, you scrap it.

It's cheaper to buy new ones every decade (tunnel contract is reduced enough to offset the TBM price), but it does take 2 years from an RFQ to delivery.

For Ford to advance subway construction on any project to a point further than the 1995 cancelled Eglinton before the next provincial election, TBMs must be ordered very soon and tunnel contracts very shortly after that.
 
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Kyle Campbell

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Assuming they all use bored tunnels. It's not the only option though, and without an EA is hard to justify the purchase on something that might or might not be used. I could see the government going cut and cover instead out in the burbs, just to save enough money to build all this
 

rbt

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Assuming they all use bored tunnels. It's not the only option though, and without an EA is hard to justify the purchase on something that might or might not be used. I could see the government going cut and cover instead out in the burbs, just to save enough money to build all this

What do you mean "without an EA"; we've got a small stack of finished and in-progress EAs. Some are even old enough that they'd could use a 6 month refresh. They (DRL, Yonge North, Scarborough, and Sheppard after a refresh) all require the same size TBM.

DRL is fully approved and ready to go for tunneling. The others mentioned above will be ready for tunnelling long before TBMs are finished their DRL drives.

At some point if you're interested in building subways, you actually need to start construction. Don't let Ford delay until after the next election; there is zero benefit to delaying.


Also, if they start planning a line 2 westward extension without moving to construction on DRL, Scarborough, Yonge North, or Sheppard (all of which have been studied and partially engineered), why would there be any expectation of actual construction on a westward extension?

Again, Ford promised subway construction; insist on construction. Buy TBMs now.
 
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smallspy

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DRL is fully approved and ready to go for tunneling. The others mentioned above will be ready for tunnelling long before TBMs are finished their DRL drives.

No, the DRL is not "ready to go for tunnelling". Excluding the fact that there is no money for that part of it just yet, the EA only gets the design to about the 10% point. They only issued the design contract to take it to 30% this past March: https://www.merx4.merx.com/public/solicitations/597794367/abstract

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

crs1026

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No, the DRL is not "ready to go for tunnelling". Excluding the fact that there is no money for that part of it just yet, the EA only gets the design to about the 10% point. They only issued the design contract to take it to 30% this past March: https://www.merx4.merx.com/public/solicitations/597794367/abstract

That's true, but taking the exact details away, it poses the most important question that needs to be held over the Ford regime every day between now and the next Provincial election.

"What have you actually advanced towards shovels in the ground since you were elected in 2018?"

Talking about subways to Peel Durham and York is nice, but there are years of talking and studying and EA's at the start of every transit project. There will be not one but two Provincial elections before those shovels could go in the ground (and that's if there were money, which there ain't).

The choice for Ford is - a) take the studies and things that are already packed and ready to proceed, and hold one's nose about their being "born in Liberal days", and advance them so there is tangible product before the next election or b) abandon the projects that are already prepared, start a new bunch of studies and EA's on things that have no groundwork laid, and reset the whole planning process for transit by four years... and enter the next election with no shovels in the ground.

I don't for the life of me understand how he could choose b) when anything in a) that gets built, he will get credit for. If the Liberals/NDP can't work this to their advantage, they are in trouble.

- Paul
 

rbt

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No, the DRL is not "ready to go for tunnelling". Excluding the fact that there is no money for that part of it just yet, the EA only gets the design to about the 10% point. They only issued the design contract to take it to 30% this past March: https://www.merx4.merx.com/public/solicitations/597794367/abstract

Let me rephrase: The DRL will be ready for tunneling before TBMs can be ordered and delivered. Spadina got through those steps quite rapidly; value engineering and accommodating potential lack of ATO for the stations took forever.
 
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Leo_Chan

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Let me rephrase: The DRL will be ready for tunneling before TBMs can be ordered and delivered. Spadina got through those steps quite rapidly; value engineering and accommodating potential lack of ATO for the stations took forever.
Don’t forget being redesigned with platform edge doors in mind instead of designed with them existing in the first place.
 

Kyle Campbell

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That's true, but taking the exact details away, it poses the most important question that needs to be held over the Ford regime every day between now and the next Provincial election.

"What have you actually advanced towards shovels in the ground since you were elected in 2018?"

Talking about subways to Peel Durham and York is nice, but there are years of talking and studying and EA's at the start of every transit project. There will be not one but two Provincial elections before those shovels could go in the ground (and that's if there were money, which there ain't).

The choice for Ford is - a) take the studies and things that are already packed and ready to proceed, and hold one's nose about their being "born in Liberal days", and advance them so there is tangible product before the next election or b) abandon the projects that are already prepared, start a new bunch of studies and EA's on things that have no groundwork laid, and reset the whole planning process for transit by four years... and enter the next election with no shovels in the ground.

I don't for the life of me understand how he could choose b) when anything in a) that gets built, he will get credit for. If the Liberals/NDP can't work this to their advantage, they are in trouble.

- Paul

It'll be a little from column a) a little from column b). Things like the DRL *might* resonate with his voters who use the Scarborough subway, but for people in York they don't care since they are already on the train way before it makes it to Bloor-Yonge. I could totally see things like the waterfront transit reset and the finch LRT being discarded on the other hand.
 

innsertnamehere

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Ford had discussed during the election finding ways to reduce the planning stages of subway design - trying to speed up the process through deregulation.
 

crs1026

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Ford had discussed during the election finding ways to reduce the planning stages of subway design - trying to speed up the process through deregulation.

That was code for “muzzling City Councillors”. The EA and engineering design are pretty straightforward steps. Council debate is another matter.
Finding funding and agreeing on how to pay for it, that’s such a simple thing....

- Paul
 

vic

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It'll be a little from column a) a little from column b). Things like the DRL *might* resonate with his voters who use the Scarborough subway, but for people in York they don't care since they are already on the train way before it makes it to Bloor-Yonge. I could totally see things like the waterfront transit reset and the finch LRT being discarded on the other hand.

What about outbound in the evening? I can't say I've experienced this myself, but isn't it also a shit-show trying to get on trains headed back north? Those people in York Region (who for some reason will take the subway instead of faster RER?) will still have to cram themselves onto trains in dangerously over-crowded stations to get home every night.
 

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