[nfitz]

Gosh, I don't think there's any trace of that. I hadn't realised it came through there.

Interesting to see South Kingsway called Jane, Runneymede called Elizabeth, and Morningside called College! If only the College streetcar went down Morningside!

 

[nfitz]

The "19" went to Bathurst which is currently 7. 5 Avenue Rd is going to be 13. I guess TTC might change them soon so people won't be confused with the new 5 Eglinton Line and 7 Finch West Line when it opens.

With Finch opening in 2021, I'd wager it will be Line 6, not Line 7. If Sheppard ever opens, I'd guess it would be Line 7.

I suppose that raises the question of what 6 Bay will become. 18 Bay I'd guess.

 

[TransitSuggestor]

They should make the 512 St. Clair should terminate at Keelesdale or Mt. Dennis Station, that way the 512 will be longer and will be the first connection from a streetcar to an lrt, maybeeeee just make a hidden connection to the lrt tracks from the streetcar tracks

 

[Wrench]

Oh you mean like the hidden connection @ Pioneer Village ,with the new FWLRT & possibly also the Jane in far future.
Maybe maybe not will just have to wait & see!

 

[TransitSuggestor]

Ya kinda like that and what do u think about the new connection

 

[Wrench]

Ya kinda like that and what do u think about the new connection

That would be a spur off St Clair up old Weston rd to Keele then north to Keelesdale stn.
Sure but Don't bet on it.
Or you could just have it loop up guns to weston rd to Mt Dennis !
This would make the 512 a more complete line terminating @ major
Hub!

 

[M II A II R II K]

Have the 512 go all the way to the airport.

 

[Wrench]

Have the 512 go all the way to the airport.

Sure extend to Scarlett rd , then all the way to Eglinton ( con. To ECLRT Ext.) then up dixon rd to the Airport.
Would be great but were talking about TTC here good luck with that.
This line should have been ext.
To a least Jane st. By now!
Very slow moving in building transit in TO
Keep in mind the ECLRT will be Ext. To the Airport & possibly the FWLRT.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

They should make the 512 St. Clair should terminate at Keelesdale or Mt. Dennis Station, that way the 512 will be longer and will be the first connection from a streetcar to an lrt, maybeeeee just make a hidden connection to the lrt tracks from the streetcar tracks

Wondering what you mean by "connection"? If you mean a track connection between lines, unfortunately the 512, along with the entire TTC streetcar network will be a different gauge (how far apart the rails are) than the Eglinton Crosstown LRT. Crosstown will be standard gauge and the TTC, both subway and streetcar are a unique "TTC gauge".

 

[drum118]

Wondering what you mean by "connection"? If you mean a track connection between lines, unfortunately the 512, along with the entire TTC streetcar network will be a different gauge (how far apart the rails are) than the Eglinton Crosstown LRT. Crosstown will be standard gauge and the TTC, both subway and streetcar are a unique "TTC gauge".

There is nothing stopping converting 512 to standard gauge other than powers to be and funds.

The idea of converting 512 to standard gauge and cutting it from the current system has been around since Metrolinx took control of Transit City Plan. In fact, it would benefit everyone, as the current 512 cars only have a short trip to the Eglinton Yard compare going through the city to get to X yard.

You do the conversion when tracks have to be replace.

As going to the airport by Scarlett Rd, been on TTC radar for decades, like going to Kipling. An EA was to get underway years ago to take the line to Scarlett Rd, but lack of funding and a Mayor who hate streetcars, has bury this idea for the time being. Going to duel end would eliminate the need for a loop west of Gunns Rd. Lots of land to be bought by the city to widen St Clair west of Gunns Loop.

 

[Palma]

There is nothing stopping converting 512 to standard gauge other than powers to be and funds.

The idea of converting 512 to standard gauge and cutting it from the current system has been around since Metrolinx took control of Transit City Plan. In fact, it would benefit everyone, as the current 512 cars only have a short trip to the Eglinton Yard compare going through the city to get to X yard.

You do the conversion when tracks have to be replace.

As going to the airport by Scarlett Rd, been on TTC radar for decades, like going to Kipling. An EA was to get underway years ago to take the line to Scarlett Rd, but lack of funding and a Mayor who hate streetcars, has bury this idea for the time being. Going to duel end would eliminate the need for a loop west of Gunns Rd. Lots of land to be bought by the city to widen St Clair west of Gunns Loop.

buying of land would be easier on south side with the plaza then the north side with the houses

 

[crs1026]

You do the conversion when tracks have to be replace.

I'm trying to do the mental math of when that would be.....the line is not that old, and the track was rebuilt end to end so it will all wear out at roughly the same time. Twenty years from now?

It's doable, but I would hope that we would do the proposed extension sooner. And that investment is wasted if we tear it up before *it* wears out.

I would look for a hybrid solution, such as bringing the 512 only to Jane and having a "temporary" transfer, a standard gauge stub off the Jane LRT perhaps. Or, if we are moving on Jane sooner, bring the stub east to Gunn's and leave the current loop where it is until we are ready to convert east of there.

- Paul

 

[aquateam]

There is nothing stopping converting 512 to standard gauge other than powers to be and funds.

The idea of converting 512 to standard gauge and cutting it from the current system has been around since Metrolinx took control of Transit City Plan. In fact, it would benefit everyone, as the current 512 cars only have a short trip to the Eglinton Yard compare going through the city to get to X yard.

You do the conversion when tracks have to be replace.

I'm trying to do the mental math of when that would be.....the line is not that old, and the track was rebuilt end to end so it will all wear out at roughly the same time. Twenty years from now?

It's doable, but I would hope that we would do the proposed extension sooner. And that investment is wasted if we tear it up before *it* wears out.

I would look for a hybrid solution, such as bringing the 512 only to Jane and having a "temporary" transfer, a standard gauge stub off the Jane LRT perhaps. Or, if we are moving on Jane sooner, bring the stub east to Gunn's and leave the current loop where it is until we are ready to convert east of there.

- Paul

Or, crazy thought. Instead of ripping up the 82 kilometers of existing track in a painful, expensive, piecemeal conversion process that will balkanize the streetcar network, we could build the not-yet-constructed, still-not-in-existence Jane/Finch/Eglinton LRTs in the same gauge as the rest of the city?

I think not using the same gauge as the TTC's network was Metrolinx's dumbest moves (and they've made a lot of dumb moves so that's saying a lot). The streetcar network is longer than all the LRTs they're currently constructing combined. The streetcar order is larger than the LRT orders. So why not have an Ontario gauge and make everything compatible?

I mean, if we were starting a network from scratch I would definitely use Standard gauge. But we have North America's largest legacy streetcar network. The purpose of a standard is so that everything is the same, but we already have a standard in Toronto (even if it may not be an ideal one).

Actually, TBH I don't care that much since I don't think a Jane LRT will go south of Eglinton since it would have to be buried because of how constrained the ROW is.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Using the suburban light rail vehicles (Flexity Freedom) on St. Clair Avenue, should they change the gauge, presents problems with the wider curves & loops and less steep inclines that they need. The legacy streetcars (Flexity Outlook) can handle the curves and inclines better. They would have to build legacy streetcars (Flexity Outlook) with standard gauge, which would not be able to be used on the legacy network.

 

[smallspy]

Or, crazy thought. Instead of ripping up the 82 kilometers of existing track in a painful, expensive, piecemeal conversion process that will balkanize the streetcar network, we could build the not-yet-constructed, still-not-in-existence Jane/Finch/Eglinton LRTs in the same gauge as the rest of the city?

I think not using the same gauge as the TTC's network was Metrolinx's dumbest moves (and they've made a lot of dumb moves so that's saying a lot). The streetcar network is longer than all the LRTs they're currently constructing combined. The streetcar order is larger than the LRT orders. So why not have an Ontario gauge and make everything compatible?

I mean, if we were starting a network from scratch I would definitely use Standard gauge. But we have North America's largest legacy streetcar network. The purpose of a standard is so that everything is the same, but we already have a standard in Toronto (even if it may not be an ideal one).

Actually, TBH I don't care that much since I don't think a Jane LRT will go south of Eglinton since it would have to be buried because of how constrained the ROW is.

There is nothing to be gained, and lots to be lost - primarily money - by regauging the Transit City lines to TTC gauge. These are not routes that will run down narrow city streets (with the possible exception of the bottom end of the Jane route), so there's no need to use the same type of equipment on them. By designing them to a more commonly-used set of standards - things like dual-point switches, wider radius turns, 750V overhead and standard gauge - the capability will exist to exchange equipment easily with other cities, or buy off-the-shelf or used equipment. That capability for all intents and purposes no long exists with the downtown network.

Changing St Clair to the Transit City standard isn't a totally ludicrous idea, but it does raise a number of very, very serious concerns, not the least of which are how to handle the streetcar power system tie-ins that are shared with the subway system, and how to rebuild St Clair and St Clair West stations to handle the new equipment.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.