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"In the end, it isn't origins that matter when it comes to building successful subway lines, as origins are ubiquitous. What matters are destinations."

But isn't an origin in the morning a destination in the afternoon?
Click to expand...

Only if you want to be a pedant. I think it's safe to say that's most people's travels for the day originate at their place of residence. That's why the afternoon trip is called a "return trip", because they're returning to their origin. Yeesh, as if I really needed to explain this.

"Sometimes there's no time to move down, but usually it's pure laziness - closer is better."

Is it that closer is seen as better, or simply that they ride the same route and hop in the same car every day? The amount of confusion that a problem in the TTC or street network causes shows us that most people just find a routine and stick to it. Like I said... ignorance. If they were truly lazy the they would do what it takes to find a seat so they don't have to stand for the trip.

"The "room" is the hydro corridor, good for bus bays and parking lots but not much else unless they bury the wires."

Then bury the wires.

"Mel Lastman and Greg Sorbara did."

When did the topic change from what is good planning to what is bad politics?
 
I think alot of people on this board don't understand the issues facing transit in Scarborough.

The long rides on buses, etc.

Sir Novelty Fashion you are right. There is tons of ridership the TTC is losing out on in Scarborough. And it all has to do with the very long bus route rides, etc to the subway.

Just in my own subdivision I can tell you of tons of people who drive downtown, because they won't put up with the four transfers it takes to get downtown, and the one hour commute time by TTC(when driving takes 20min)

TTC really has to get its act together in Scarborough.
But the new route 133C shows the TTC does not want to get its act together. Aslong as there is a bus running, they feel it is o.k. Who cares if takes you 50min to access the subway.
 
I'm not sure how it's been the past couple of years but when I lived in eastern Scarborough, it would easily take me 45-60 minutes to get to Kennedy Station alone via SRT and including time waiting for the bus. My tip to work at Queen's Quay & Sherbourne was 1hr 45 minutes each way.
 
"Is it that closer is seen as better, or simply that they ride the same route and hop in the same car every day?"

If they ride the RT every day, they know perfectly well that there's seats available two cars over, yet they prefer to wait for the car closest to where the escalator dumped them off and risk not even getting on the next train. They also know that the other end of the train is closer to stairs that no one takes, allowing them to get down from the platform faster than all the people standing on the escalator. How is this ignorance? The same thing happens in a lecture hall when the seats closest to the door/aisle are taken first, crowding everyone together. People see other opportunities but take the most readily available one.
 
I don't think it's laziness in this case, but I do know what you're talking about.

Another factor is that it's such a bottleneck getting out at SCC and going down two flights of stairs that perhaps some people are worried about missing their bus. Dunno what it is really but people definitely stick to the front car of the SRT.
 
The bottle neck is caused by everyone sticking to the front so that they can zoom down the escalator, which in reality always takes longer than walking down the stairs at the other end - the first 5 people get down the escalator quick but everyone else gets clogged up. Also, the path of people going from the eastbound RT to the bus level crosses the path of people going from the buses up to the westbound RT, causing continuous jostling. Escalator/stair placement in some TTC stations seems either random or outdated.
 
Sorry, but that is the TTC's fault. They put all the high frequancy bus routes that run late, at the front end of the station. So naturally even at night, all the people cram into the first two cars.

On the other side of the station they put all the limited service bus routes that stop at like 7PM. Its no wonder everyone crowds into one spot. Because the other side of the station is considered dead :)
 
Your right mike. Its the TTCs fault that people choose to live where they do, and don't have direct subway access where ever they choose to live.

Driving 20mins to downtown from Scarborough is great and fast. No need for public transit if travelling by car is that free flowing. They must be travelling on the secret Scarbourgh Expressway.

Improving transit in Scarborough is no doubt an issue, especially the SRT replacement, however, econcomically theres not much the TTC can do except add buses/frequency, to routes for 416 proper that warrant it based upon ridership.

I do agree that if the money was there, LRT is the way to go, which is why I like the Smartride LRT plan that was killed. Quite frankly, Scaborough was lucky in the first place to get the SRT and I hope a LRT solution is found to replace the SRT, which could further be expanded to 905/York. If you build subway expansion, it will be a long time before a future extension will be made after they build it to STC. However, if they build LRT, it is cheaper and makes more ridership sence to be able to expand it and create a northern LRT system to serve the ever sprawling areas.

The key thing to note is that Scarborough is rapidly growing, and the TTC needs time to adjust. The politicians will only react and provide money when there is a crisis or political gain to be made, and not forward thinking projected ridership demands. If you want to blame someone, blame the PCs of Ontario who killed much of the TTCs capital expansion, and then the liberals who are just riding their coat tails in fregualness.
 
It is the TTC's fault in some ways.

Toronto is a city of over 2.4 million people. There is no way we could have fit all those people in the old City of Toronto.

Scarborough is not that far out. So don't blame people for living in Scarborough.

People in NYC proper live farther out then Scarborough is from downtown.

The TTC could fix a number of the SRT problems if they just did a huge bus reroute program in Scarborough.

The TTC needs a totally new plan for Scarborough.

TTC needs more direct bus routes, faster routes, etc.
 
Toronto geographically is pretty big, people choose still where to live. Demand drives supply. People who move out to scarborough, should look at what is there existing, instead of assuming that everything is there. I applaud those at STC, for there choice, but its the same story about people who move to Markham, want there 2 driveway house and complain about lack of transit infrastructure, or about the time it takes them to travel downtown.

Most NYC suburban lines cut through areas that are a lot denser than Scaborough. Mid rises are the norm, instead of Toronto, where you find high density usually along busyintersections in the 416 suburban areas. Its a big difference.
 
People in NYC proper live farther out then Scarborough is from downtown.
Click to expand...

The difference, is that NYC has more office space just in Midtown, than all of downtowns in Canada. Volumes of riders are travelling the same direction. You say yourself that jobs are decreasing in Toronto. What is needed is not just a stand alone scaborough plan, but an integrated plan across all GTA, hopefully via LRT. However, I obviously think that 416 should be looked after first, backboning the entire system before money is spent elsewhere.
 
"My tip to work at Queen's Quay & Sherbourne was 1hr 45 minutes each way."

Wow. Even if I was the most pro-transit, anti-car person in the world I'd rather buy a really cheap used car than put up with that every day.
 
To be honest it's not so much that I was pro-transit back then but more that I couldn't afford a car at the time.
 
You mentioned east Scarborough - what about the GO train? The Stouffville line might as well not be there as far as the rest of Scarborough is concerned, but the Durham line is better.
 
GO Train might have saved some time but wouldn't be worth it when the additional cost is considered.

It would have taken about 40-50 minutes to get to Guildwood, then another 30 minutes to Union. About a 10-15 minute walk from there so anywhere from 1 hr 20 minutes to 1hr 35 minutes. A savings of about 10-25 minutes per trip but an increase in price-per-day bringing it to about $12.00 from the then $4.00 round-trip via TTC alone.
 
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