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CDL.TO

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It was pretty busy from day one when it only went to Eglinton.

Pretty busy, but they did run two-car trains during some off-peak times.

subway-5102-09.jpg


For years half of peak period northbound trains short turned at Eglinton. For years the University Subway was closed on weekends.

It's certainly not the same as Sheppard (for one, downtown employment projections panned out). But ridership did grow over time on all subway lines.
 

WislaHD

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Its hard to be anything else when it is only 6km long.
Extending it to Downsview and interlining both north and south would go a long way in making it more useful.
More useful for connectivity concerns sure. Spadina commuters transferring to the Yonge line via Sheppard West extension would increase the subway's ridership numbers too.

But will Sheppard ever attract a substantial number of new riders, ever? I think not.

There are very few destinations along the Sheppard corridor, employment is not growing, feeder routes go to Yonge subway or Line 2 rather than to Sheppard (a trend that would continue despite a Sheppard East extension) and Sheppard's existent riders are already transferring from the Sheppard bus. A Sheppard East extension is only pushing the transferring point for them further east.
 

M II A II R II K

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Perhaps they should only run Line 4 during rush hour only to save on costs, and certainly not have it run til 2:30 AM which is an a hour longer than the other subways.
 

LNahid2000

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Perhaps they should only run Line 4 during rush hour only to save on costs, and certainly not have it run til 2:30 AM which is an a hour longer than the other subways.
It also doesn't have to run every 5 minutes like all the other subways. You could just have 2 trains running back and forth.
 

Hopkins123

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More useful for connectivity concerns sure. Spadina commuters transferring to the Yonge line via Sheppard West extension would increase the subway's ridership numbers too.

But will Sheppard ever attract a substantial number of new riders, ever? I think not.

There are very few destinations along the Sheppard corridor, employment is not growing, feeder routes go to Yonge subway or Line 2 rather than to Sheppard (a trend that would continue despite a Sheppard East extension) and Sheppard's existent riders are already transferring from the Sheppard bus. A Sheppard East extension is only pushing the transferring point for them further east.

Yes, Sheppard would attract a substantial amount of new riders because the land use/zoning in several areas hasn't been put to its full potential yet. All the industrial lands in-between Agincourt and the Town Centre can be redeveloped. There's patches of vacant land elsewhere along the route, particularly around Warden and Victoria Park, that can be rezoned and developed as well.

And now onto the major connecting surface routes. 24/224 Victoria Park, 68 Warden, 17 Birchmount, 43 Kennedy and 57 Midland in total see a daily weekday ridership of 85,000. The 190 sees 10,000. So it's safe to say a good chunk of those passengers would transfer at a Sheppard subway stop rather than continue south on the bus to Eglinton or the BD. Does a Sheppard subway really sound so unreasonable, then?

Since Sheppard West has to be built as a subway to Downsview (no room on the surface for tracks), the case for just restoring the entire Network 2011 plan altogether from Dufferin to McCowan makes so much more sense. I don't think we ought to delay, certainly not til mid-century. Construction on several corridors should be ongoing. Being snobbish or prejudice against extending the subway, for whatever reason, fixes nothing.
 

BurlOak

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And now onto the major connecting surface routes. 24/224 Victoria Park, 68 Warden, 17 Birchmount, 43 Kennedy and 57 Midland in total see a daily weekday ridership of 85,000. The 190 sees 10,000. So it's safe to say a good chunk of those passengers would transfer at a Sheppard subway stop rather than continue south on the bus to Eglinton or the BD. Does a Sheppard subway really sound so unreasonable, then?

If we actually have a Regional transit system, then perhaps the buses would go from Markham (York Region) and terminate at Sheppard. The bus ridership numbers currently shown are kept low because the current system of multiple municipal transit systems means that there is only 4km worth of bus that feeds Sheppard.
 

TheTigerMaster

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Since Sheppard West has to be built as a subway to Downsview (no room on the surface for tracks), the case for just restoring the entire Network 2011 plan altogether from Dufferin to McCowan makes so much more sense. I don't think we ought to delay, certainly not til mid-century. Construction on several corridors should be ongoing. Being snobbish or prejudice against extending the subway, for whatever reason, fixes nothing.

Nobody here has said don't ever extend the subway. We should extend it when it's appropriate; when there is subway-level demand.
 

innsertnamehere

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So spend another $1.5 billlion dollars for a solution that will only last another 30 years? Repeat the exact same mistake we made with the existing RT?

Building the Scarborough Subway now may indeed be a few years early, but the other option of dropping $1.5 billion on a relatively temporary LRT replacement is even more wasteful.
 

TheTigerMaster

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So spend another $1.5 billlion dollars for a solution that will only last another 30 years? Repeat the exact same mistake we made with the existing RT?

Building the Scarborough Subway now may indeed be a few years early, but the other option of dropping $1.5 billion on a relatively temporary LRT replacement is even more wasteful.

We're talking about the Sheppard East LRT ;)
 

smallspy

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Pretty busy, but they did run two-car trains during some off-peak times.

For years half of peak period northbound trains short turned at Eglinton. For years the University Subway was closed on weekends.

In fairness, the 2-car off-peak trains only lasted for about a half-year or so. And the half-of-peak-service north of Eglinton was due to not having enough new trains delivered to provide a full level of service in 1973. (This was rectified before the remainder of the Yonge Line Extension opened in 1974.)

The University Subway ended service at 10pm or so 6 days a week and had no Sunday service until the mid-1970s.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

gweed123

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They will not let it be a stub. Completing Sheppard will be a campaign promise of the Liberals in 2018 to keep King Brown out of office.

If any transit issue is going to be key in the 2018 election, I think it's going to be RER on the Milton Line. Mississauga right now is nearly all red, and if the Liberals are going to stay in power they're going to need to hold most of, if not all of those seats. Adding Milton into the RER plans would be a great way to do that. The Sheppard Subway would be about the same price, and would affect a fraction of the ridings, not to mention would be a huge waste of money.
 

Rainforest

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Yeah. Sheppard subway will not attract nearly as much attention as SSE. It may be important for a couple of local councillors. But Liberals, or any party for that matter, would be foolish if they bank on the Sheppard corridor.
 

gweed123

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Yeah. Sheppard subway will not attract nearly as much attention as SSE. It may be important for a couple of local councillors. But Liberals, or any party for that matter, would be foolish if they bank on the Sheppard corridor.

As a vote-buying scheme, it's a dumb idea. As a transit proposal, it's a dumb idea. Pretty much a dumb idea all around.
 

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