News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
 4.7K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 12K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 2.1K     0 

MisterF

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
3,432
Reaction score
2,356
These people are absolutely ridiculous and part of the reason why our transit takes forever to build in this province because they gotta appease the people that cry.

Absolutely disgusting.
To be fair, another big part of the reason transit takes so long to build is that when a new government gets elected they throw out transit plans years in the making to start from scratch. And then wonder why people are upset when the plans change.
 

TJ O'Pootertoot

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
2,993
Reaction score
1,373
To be fair, another big part of the reason transit takes so long to build is that when a new government gets elected they throw out transit plans years in the making to start from scratch. And then wonder why people are upset when the plans change.

Yeah, I mean the original TPAP for Yonge was done in 2008/09. I don't think anyone is surprised costs have gone up so much. That it wasn't thrown out entirely is a miracle! The current Crosstown isn't identical to the 1990s Eglinton Subway but it's effectively the same project insomuch as that it would look very different if that project had been completed. Things change when you have to start over and while I understand the concerns when you make up and suddenly find the alignment has changed as is under your neighbourhood, it's still annoying how they're saying to just go back to the previous alignment, without addressing the cost or other reasons it's changed.

Have other cities/regions been able to get this special dispensation?

Fair question - I don't know. But the way stuff gets built here is so slapdash, it's hard to do apples-to-apples. Most of the recent transit expansion has been Provincially funded, so it's a moot point. Like, K-W didn't have to DCs for Ion because they didn't pay for Ion, right?

In this case (and Spadina), there were Provincial, Federal and Municipal shares. The DCs are used for the municipal portion. The details are a bit fuzzy for me but I wanna say that out of the municipal 1/3 on Spadina, it was like 1/3 of that was Toronto's and 2/3 was York Region's; I forget if Toronto was allowed to use DCs for their slice but I believe so.

Here, with Yonge, Toronto doesn't even have a municipal portion so the entire municipal slice of the pie is York Region's. I can't imagine that if there was a Toronto portion, only YR would be allowed to use DCs.
 

steviej1

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 5, 2021
Messages
7
Reaction score
3
Can someone please explain why it is still worth building this subway if it will not have Cummer and Royal Orchard Stations? It seems to me like it will only make life more difficult for those living or working on Yonge Street. How is it worth it?
 

TJ O'Pootertoot

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
2,993
Reaction score
1,373
You've asked the same question before, a few times in a few different ways. It's all laid out in the Initial Business Case Metrolinx published.

The subway will provide transit for the substantial number of riders north of Finch and even hugely more substantial new growth around Highway 7 {at least 50k new residents and 1000s of jobs). On balance, Cummer and Royal Orchard offered relatively few new riders and in the case of Cummer few new riders who weren't already within walking distance of either Steeles or Finch. Particularly with Royal Orchard, I'm not sure how adding it makes life easier for people living/working in Yonge to any significant degree. There's not much development potential, existing ridership or transit connections there and it's not like those people are forbidden from using the subway: they just have to get on one stop further north or south. In short, for the money it would cost to build the stations (and operate them, and the extra time for trains to stop at them etc.) you wouldn't be getting good bang for your buck.

Anyway, many here think there's a chance one of those stations still gets added (and Cummer would be my guess) but the extension makes plenty of sense as it is and probably would have made plenty of sense even when it was 3 stations. If you're asking sincerely, that's how and why the cost-benefit analysis says it's worth it.
 
Last edited:

asher__jo

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
378
Reaction score
509
City:
Winnipeg
Can someone please explain why it is still worth building this subway if it will not have Cummer and Royal Orchard Stations? It seems to me like it will only make life more difficult for those living or working on Yonge Street. How is it worth it?
People living near Royal Orchard don't want it nor does the lack of existing and potential density support it. Cummer will likely be added or a high density project will contribute towards costs is my prediction.
 

Rainforest

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,715
Reaction score
2,550
Can someone please explain why it is still worth building this subway if it will not have Cummer and Royal Orchard Stations? It seems to me like it will only make life more difficult for those living or working on Yonge Street. How is it worth it?

The number of people who benefit from the subway extension will be many times greater than the number of people inconvenienced by the loss of VIVA stations at Royal Orchard and Centre, or by the loss of the #53 / #60 buses between Steeles and Finch.

It would be great to add those stations back to the project scope, especially Cummer / Drewry. But their absence doesn't invalidate the whole project.
 

Bordercollie

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 20, 2020
Messages
578
Reaction score
404
The number of people who benefit from the subway extension will be many times greater than the number of people inconvenienced by the loss of VIVA stations at Royal Orchard and Centre, or by the loss of the #53 / #60 buses between Steeles and Finch.

It would be great to add those stations back to the project scope, especially Cummer / Drewry. But their absence doesn't invalidate the whole project.
So there won't be any VIVA services from Richmond Hill centre to finch? What about the 99 will that still run? Seeing that some stops are not within walking distance.
 

ARG1

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
1,360
Reaction score
3,514
City:
Toronto
So there won't be any VIVA services from Richmond Hill centre to finch? What about the 99 will that still run? Seeing that some stops are not within walking distance.
The 99 will of course still run, and older documents suggest 10 minute service 🤣
16265302550942842825035616111811.png
 

Rainforest

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,715
Reaction score
2,550
So there won't be any VIVA services from Richmond Hill centre to finch? What about the 99 will that still run? Seeing that some stops are not within walking distance.

I think it makes sense to run the #99 on the improved frequency; such as every 10 min as the doc cited by ARG1 states.

VIVA, I assume no. The bulk of riders coming from the north will be transferring to subway at RHC. Residents living in the vicinity of the Centre and Royal Orchard stations will not fill the express bus, and Clark will have its own subway station. Thus, not enough riders for the southern VIVA. Unless that section of VIVA gets a lot more local stops, but then it just turns into #99.
 

chasedp

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 19, 2020
Messages
5
Reaction score
6
No VIVA south of RHC makes sense but it's a dumb move having all those other routes end at Clark instead of Steeles. So a good portion of York residents will then lose easier access to Yonge/Steeles and connecting TTC/YRT routes and will be forced to take the subway at Clark or get on an extra bus to go one station south.

Kinda similar to how it's played out at York U and the subway there.
 

ARG1

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
1,360
Reaction score
3,514
City:
Toronto
No VIVA south of RHC makes sense but it's a dumb move having all those other routes end at Clark instead of Steeles. So a good portion of York residents will then lose easier access to Yonge/Steeles and connecting TTC/YRT routes and will be forced to take the subway at Clark or get on an extra bus to go one station south.

Kinda similar to how it's played out at York U and the subway there.
It depends, the whole extension would require a rethink of the entire YRT network down there, so I doubt that we won't have some sort of bus service along Hilda there. I doubt this list is final and is more of an idea list.
 

TJ O'Pootertoot

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
2,993
Reaction score
1,373
P3 Market Update will be held today at 12:00 p.m. with Minister of Infrastructure. The Yonge North Extension will likely be a topic of discussion. Link below if you are interested in attending.

... And Metrolinx is doing another open house, no doubt filled with all sorts of info about why Royal Orchard residents should chill, coming up on the 20th...

 

Allandale25

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
6,754
Reaction score
9,158
YNSE mentioned in the IO CEO's letter and the latest market update.

 

toronto647

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
284
Reaction score
526
YNSE mentioned in the IO CEO's letter and the latest market update.


IO P3 Market Update October 2021 - YNSE delayed according to it

 

Top