goodcitywhenfinished
Active Member
Congrats you're now orange-pilled
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- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
Dārayavauš
New Member
The problem is actually restrictive zoning that is harming Ontario. The Greenbelt is just an easy scapegoat for the fact that they will not allow any sort of densification at all across enormous swathes of the cities neigbourhoods.
UrbanRED
Active Member
It's a mix of both. Greenbelt = no suburban development, NIMBY = no urban development. No development of any kind = insane prices for housing
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
They’re not equivalent. One of those policies protects a vulnerable ecosystem and some of the best farmland in the country. The other policy protects McMansions. And the protections around the McMansions have proven far more effective than those around the farmland and forests.
UrbanRED
Active Member
Did I say they were equivalent? I only said that they're both contributing to the problem, which is true
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
Apologies if that came off as accusatory. It was merely a defence of the Greenbelt in general, since it has come under fire on this message board.
Growing up in the GTA, I spent my entire life seeing this get turned into this. Meanwhile quality of life had declined precipitously as people spend an ever increasing portion of their day sitting in a car in gridlock on the completely overwhelmed 400-series highway system.
Canadians are going to have to come to the realization that they do not have a God-given right to live in a metro area of over 7 million people AND have their own massive front and backyards, two-car garages, 4 or 5 bedrooms, etc. I full support blocking greenfield development until Ontario gets its sh*t together in terms of land use planning. However, my prediction is that Ontario continues to chip away at the Greenbelt, building the same car dependent subdivisions and power centres they always have. Continuing to drop 50-storey condominiums along the sides of highways and 7-lane arterial stroads. Continually drawing up new mass transit maps but not actually building anything. And the stations they do build will be placed next to highways, surrounded by parking garages and do nothing to increase the actual capacity over the already overburdened transit system. None of this will actually reduce real estate prices, though. The only real solution is to give Toronto Barcelona-level density. (End rant!)
artvandelay
Active Member
I have a few projects on the go in Southern Ontario, and the amount of bureaucratic red tape you need to endure even for simple projects is staggering. Zoning is incredibly restrictive: almost every significant project requires a rezoning and bylaw amendment, the municipalities are incredibly slow at providing review comments, there are multi-level municipalities reviewing most applications (eg. region of Peel etc.), conservation authorities have jurisdiction over areas that are completely illogical - I could go on...
All of the these issues, plus the greenbelt, have created the mess they are in down there. It's such a disaster that I don't even know where they would start to fix the problem.
If the highest and best use of the land is for agriculture, then it will be agricultural land.
All of the these issues, plus the greenbelt, have created the mess they are in down there. It's such a disaster that I don't even know where they would start to fix the problem.
You could argue that a portion of it is is a vulnerable ecosystem - the Niagara escarpment, the river valleys etc. but the vast majority of protected lands are unremarkable farmland that has been cleared of forest and cultivated with crops for hundreds of years. There's no valid rationale for protecting farmland - it's a naïve idea that sounds good to the layperson uneducated in urban land economics. There is no shortage of farmland, and agricultural yields have been continuously improving and are forecast to continue to do so - more than offsetting the miniscule loss of production from farmland that is consumed by development.
If the highest and best use of the land is for agriculture, then it will be agricultural land.
That's what is coming down the pipe. Outside of places in the US (which have the same issues with sprawl), most places in the world that have 7 Million people are built differently. We're already seeing some transition here in Calgary and other Canadian cities, as multi-family apartment/townhouse is becoming much more prevalent. As time goes on the large SFH with the two car garage will become increasingly expensive. At some point new development will be more like it is in Europe, etc..
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
Actually, I'm a lot less optimistic about the global food supply in the coming decades, and we really should be prioritizing robustness of the system rather than specialization and efficiency (especially in places with reliable access to water). But even if food supply wasn't an issue, there are still all kinds of terrible outcomes that come with replacing farm fields with suburban subdivisions. Namely, dumping that many more cars onto the road network, greatly increasing GHG emissions, etc. And it may sound naive, but the loss of natural beauty is an actual thing to consider. We may consider it superficial, but how many times do we curse previous generations who destroyed wonderful places and replaced them with ugly, desolate landscapes.
artvandelay
Active Member
I don't disagree that most of the GTA is a dump, but I think your gripe is more with the form of greenfield development in general (which I agree is terrible).
Mountain Man
Senior Member
The greenbelt in the GTA sounds like the ALR in a lot of BC. Kelowna sprawls quite a bit because of it, as that city intensifies it will be interesting to see how much they protect it in the future.
JonnyCanuck
Senior Member
I don't see this posted. Another residential development in Sunnyside has been proposed for this location.
www.google.ca
2 buildings - 60 units. I could not find any other information.
528 10 St NW · 528 10 St NW, Calgary, AB T2N 1W3, Canada
528 10 St NW, Calgary, AB T2N 1W3, Canada
www.google.ca
RolleyMakr_168
New Member
I believe it is this:I don't see this posted. Another residential development in Sunnyside has been proposed for this location.
2 buildings - 60 units. I could not find any other information.528 10 St NW · 528 10 St NW, Calgary, AB T2N 1W3, Canada
528 10 St NW, Calgary, AB T2N 1W3, Canada
https://calgary.skyrisecities.com/f...de-26m-6s-vera-group-faas-architecture.33924/
JonnyCanuck
Senior Member
Right you are!
RolleyMakr_168
New Member
There is a lot of potential for that area though. Calgary really has been lacking on Transit-Oriented Development- and I try to stay optimistic. But knowing that it is Calgary, my expectations are not high.