thommyjo said:
Agree with a lot of this. I can respect the intention of many who support SCS, housing, not clearing encampments, etc. but the reality is that all the cities most fully embracing these approaches are a mess.

They aren’t working.

And financially it’s a death spiral.

People use SCS, and it often just delays death. People get wrap around support and housing, but many never recover to the point of functioning on their own so they simply relapse. We can let encampments be instead of clearing, and you get hastings, Seattle CHAZ, and just more death/drug abuse.

when you daughter is anorexic, you don’t help her throw up. You don’t let her live alone. You don’t give her free reign to social media. You take her to the hospital and rehab to try to save her life before she kill’s herself. Even if she doesn’t want it.

It’s complex with people’s rights and freedoms vs children/parents. But I don’t believe it’s compassionate to keep supporting strategies that are killing thousands every year across our major cities. It’s not working.

And letting those who are sick/addicted, and often criminals, assault and do harm to innocent others is horrible. Where’s the compassion for those people?
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I agree, it is complex. Having walked past the Valley Line shelters today at 102 and 102, there was a whole cook shop going on in there. Candles, bags, people, garbage. Enough is enough. Some people need REAL help, ie, taken off the streets and locked up in a 4x4 cell until they detox. At what point do we give up with the current cycle of nicely, nicely, pouring more and more money into this ( at the expense of the law following, hard working folks of society). It is time to realize that some people cannot be helped, plain and simple.
Everybody has rights, but your rights end when you cannot or are unable to function as a part of a civil society. Intervention by the state is needed, the status quo has not worked. There is no way in hell I would ever support taking some of these people off the street and placing them into their own home. Can you imagine ??? The pipes would be sold, copper ripped out, place trashed, the opportunity cost is simply not worth it anymore.
I am starting to wonder if the people advocating for more social services have a vested interest in this ideology, looking after their own interest, instead of the public good.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.
A cook shop in a LRT shelter is a bridge too far.
 
God said:
The real problem is that rural towns send all their “not so brightest” here to the city for us to deal with. As a result our social system gets overflowed. Also there is some hypocrisy in what some people are saying. If a person is to sick in the mind to get off a pill, and the pill Is addictive and makes them more sick you get an infinite cycle. All the way until they OD on the street. The real problem here is that the large portion of the population is naive enough to believe that if we offered the service these people would choose it. If you work downtown you would know that they are too sick and I mean if you walk around downtown not just drive and see glimpses for bits and seconds. These people are too sick and keep getting more and more sick the more we let them be. They largely aren’t cognitive enough to know their own names while high and are unpredictable and are even violent. So whichever one it is whether you want to claim they are mentally ill or sick off of a drug they can’t get off of. They are unpredictable and shouldn’t be left alone to deal with it and get high for free. Even housing them wouldn’t get most of them off of the drugs. Being human isn’t just feeling bad for another human. Sometimes you need to save people. They should be slowly taken off the street and put in a facility with forced detox. They should spend the next few months speaking with psychologists and being mentored back into basic things like keeping a healthy routine and maybe even learn some trades to enter back into our workforce. That’s something radical of course but at what point is enough enough. If family members are available they should be able to sign the individual out at anytime of course but they are then responsible for that person and what they do. There are people out there that aren’t sick and are just homeless. Those very same people avoid these shelters because of the unpredictable nature of the people out there. Our entire system doesn’t help anyone and costs everyone money and time. All we do is delay death with small success stories here and there. Of course this would require lots of money and I don’t plan on putting money where my mouth is lol. Just a thought to add to the discussion!
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"The real problem is that rural towns send all their "not so brightest" here to the city for us to deal with". - OMG really?
 
Edmonton is the only real city for an area the size of Western Europe once you start looking north, and has enough services that if you’re homeless, you’re much better off here than say Grande Prairie or in the territories. I’ve seen enough unhoused people in oil company gemsuits to wonder if there’s a not insignificant number of people from out of town who had jobs in the patch, lost them, and are now living on the street in Edmonton.

We’ve also got the lions share of prisons, If you get arrested somewhere you’re sent to the Edmonton Institution, then when you’re finished your sentence unless I’m mistaken you’re not bussed back to your hometown, you end up homeless in Edmonton where you’ve got no support, can’t find a job with a conviction, and on it goes.

This should probably be moved to another thread but these topics are so intertwined at this point it’s bleak.
 
Garneau2Go said:
Edmonton is the only real city for an area the size of Western Europe once you start looking north, and has enough services that if you’re homeless, you’re much better off here than say Grande Prairie or in the territories. I’ve seen enough unhoused people in oil company gemsuits to wonder if there’s a not insignificant number of people from out of town who had jobs in the patch, lost them, and are now living on the street in Edmonton.

We’ve also got the lions share of prisons, If you get arrested somewhere you’re sent to the Edmonton Institution, then when you’re finished your sentence unless I’m mistaken you’re not bussed back to your hometown, you end up homeless in Edmonton where you’ve got no support, can’t find a job with a conviction, and on it goes.

This should probably be moved to another thread but these topics are so intertwined at this point it’s bleak.
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This is well documented in other cities like LA/portland too.

Or look at the current migrant crisis in NYC

The reason many of the more "compassionate" ideas aren't working is because cities aren't closed systems. So unless you bring rules and alignment across the country, you'll have imbalance. And that'll then lead to movement towards areas with resources/support/relaxed laws. If you're an addict in saskatoon, but your encampment gets cleared daily, there's no SCS, there's few other guys on the street, the police are always on top of you if you're trying to steal/loiter/harass....why stay if you can nicely tent in the river valley in edmonton, no one bugs you, there's free safe supply, lots of shelters with meals, relaxed laws.

Surprise, surprise if edmonton's homeless population doesn't decrease when you have that imbalance.

And hence why housing first hasn't worked in LA/Vancouver. They've spent billions and the problem is worse than ever. So we can't pretend like it's just a money/political will issue.
 
Garneau2Go said:
Edmonton is the only real city for an area the size of Western Europe once you start looking north, and has enough services that if you’re homeless, you’re much better off here than say Grande Prairie or in the territories. I’ve seen enough unhoused people in oil company gemsuits to wonder if there’s a not insignificant number of people from out of town who had jobs in the patch, lost them, and are now living on the street in Edmonton.

We’ve also got the lions share of prisons, If you get arrested somewhere you’re sent to the Edmonton Institution, then when you’re finished your sentence unless I’m mistaken you’re not bussed back to your hometown, you end up homeless in Edmonton where you’ve got no support, can’t find a job with a conviction, and on it goes.

This should probably be moved to another thread but these topics are so intertwined at this point it’s bleak.
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I find it hard to believe that someone who had an oil field job cannot find employment in the construction industry as a labourer or as a janitor I find such reasoning to be just another in a litany of excuses.
 
Addictions problems that get out of control do tend to cause employment issues which probably also make it harder to find another job. It is all related.
Glenco said:
I find it hard to believe that someone who had an oil field job cannot find employment in the construction industry as a labourer or as a janitor I find such reasoning to be just another in a litany of excuses.
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thommyjo said:
This is well documented in other cities like LA/portland too.

Or look at the current migrant crisis in NYC

The reason many of the more "compassionate" ideas aren't working is because cities aren't closed systems. So unless you bring rules and alignment across the country, you'll have imbalance. And that'll then lead to movement towards areas with resources/support/relaxed laws. If you're an addict in saskatoon, but your encampment gets cleared daily, there's no SCS, there's few other guys on the street, the police are always on top of you if you're trying to steal/loiter/harass....why stay if you can nicely tent in the river valley in edmonton, no one bugs you, there's free safe supply, lots of shelters with meals, relaxed laws.

Surprise, surprise if edmonton's homeless population doesn't decrease when you have that imbalance.

And hence why housing first hasn't worked in LA/Vancouver. They've spent billions and the problem is worse than ever. So we can't pretend like it's just a money/political will issue.
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It’s definitely political. If Danielle Smith implemented the very laws that would be rid of this problem the blue haired mafia would take to the streets and that’s the truth. We here on this forum for the most part no matter our political differences, admit to when we’re mistaken or when someone else has a better idea. I see many people liking posts here that they wouldn’t have liked 4 years ago on this forum. They are quiet about it but I respect you all who have seen and watched the last few years and have changed your mind. Many don’t and forever won’t unfortunately. Those people are frankly the majority of the urban population and when you’re a politician you have to play the political game. She likely knows the media would frame her as Sauron or Darth Vader or an Austrian Painter.
 
God said:
It’s definitely political. If Danielle Smith implemented the very laws that would be rid of this problem the blue haired mafia would take to the streets and that’s the truth. We here on this forum for the most part no matter our political differences, admit to when we’re mistaken or when someone else has a better idea. I see many people liking posts here that they wouldn’t have liked 4 years ago on this forum. They are quiet about it but I respect you all who have seen and watched the last few years and have changed your mind. Many don’t and forever won’t unfortunately. Those people are frankly the majority of the urban population and when you’re a politician you have to play the political game. She likely knows the media would frame her as Sauron or Darth Vader or an Austrian Painter.
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God, buddy, pal, could you please provide details of why Rachel did nothing and it's ok with you, she has the answers, everybody's money, and yet we had this problem during her reign. I agree it's gotten worse, but could that not also be a sign of her policies failing??? Asking for a friend
 
Hey, also asking for a friend: why does every CONServative supporter blame the 4 year window the NDP was in power for the province's woes, CONSidering, you know, the 40+ years of CONServative power here? Again, asking for a friend.

BTW, I'm a firm believer in a more tough love approach to our current social challenges. A transit system is to move people, not be a homeless shelter.

See, I can call out the stupidity on both sides of the spectrum; I'm not beholden to any ideology.
 
Honestly? I think pointing fingers isn’t helpful because if we want to lay blame it’s not one person, it’s a never ending cascade of events and policies going back decades (if not a century) that got us here. There is no one person to blame and if we just fix what they did it all goes away.

Is what we are doing now working? That’s all I think matters and the answer is in my opinion no, and it’s going to take changes at many different agencies: from Human Services, to Alberta Health, to the court system, to the CBSA to tackle this problem. That’s not skirting the issue so much as acknowledging the homelessness crisis is extremely complicated and difficult to solve, and nobody in North America is really dealing with it well.

To be somewhat on topic and end this rant, case in point: Opening the LRT tunnels for shelter during the big cold snap a few years ago seemed to be the big inflection point of this problem but it likely saved lives doing so. It’s a policy that was probably needed at the time but had ramifications that reverberated years later. It had a part to play in the crisis but isn’t the cause.
 
So today I rode the Valley Line to Churchill going to work. When I arrived two of the shelters had homeless inside clearly setting it up as their personal shelter. Fairly filthy inside too. As much as it was a nice idea to have these shelters and stations open to everyone, my thought is to get ride of the shelters. It will suck when it's really cold to stand outside but it will be better than leaving those spaces to be occupied like that.
 
Yup. Frankly
- arc card/ticket access for all shelters should be a mandatory at this point
- Constant EPS/Peace Officer presence, it’s not like I haven’t seen them there, I’ve seen them twice last weekend giving tickets and moving people off the shelters.
 
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