- Thread starter androiduk
- Start date
kris
Senior Member
I know they are re integrating into the new office tower once it's complete but I am talking about in the mean time where they would go. The article also states "the plan for the north half of the site includes the retention of the majority of the existing 4-storey LCBO office building," does this mean operations there will continue or it will be preserved and restored?
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Big Daddy
Senior Member
The issue is, WTF difference could this possibly make to this project to suddenly make this project "better" or instantly "supportable"?
These constant and totally arbitrary reductions are ridiculous and serve no earthly purpose!
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Read the report(s), there is a significant reduction in the overall density - and you can't spam height given the from chosen and the number of towers you have - nothing arbitrary about those. Besides, the current proposal is actually taller than the initial one - clearly, planning was not that concerned about height - and was willing to trade it for better tower separation, distribution of density, etc.
AoD
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ProjectEnd
Superstar
TEYCC voted to endorse the Staff recommendation for continued dialogue between the developer and the city through mediation. Some things to be ironed out including the S.37 benefits but apparently things are moving along well here.
Pinnacle have indicated that they are happy with how things are going here now. This has been a three year process to get zoning on this so far!
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Ninja
New Member
Does anyone know when sales for this project will start approximately? Or when they expect sales to start?
AHK
Senior Member
I am tempted to reply: 'Probably in a year or two..... plus or minus a year or two', but here is a little more insight than a simple glib response.
The various approvals for a project of this nature take a very long time - official plan amendment, zoning, Toronto and East York Community Committee, City Council, Ontario Municipal Board are all different processes which may be involved. More specifically, the developers, Pinnacle Corporation have appealed the project directly to the OMB while they are negotiating with the City as to what they may be able to build on the site. A further wrinkle is that the site is within the scope of the Lower Yonge Precinct Planning exercise, a joint initiative of the City and Waterfront Toronto. So, the final agreement as to specifically what can be built on the site still has to be agreed and approved.
And then all the detailed construction drawings have to be prepared, submitted to the city, reviewed, approved (which for a project of this size and complexity, would never happen without iterations of going back to the developer and the design team for clarifications and or modifications) and permits issued.
All that being said, two bits of contextual information. First of all, the developer, Pinnacle, and the design team, headed up by David Pontarini of Hariri Pontarini, have been working extensively with the City to develop an overall plan which meets both the developer's and the City's objectives, and comments from both members of the proponent's team and from representatives from Waterfront Toronto are that the process seems to be going well, and prospects for an agreed solution, which would be presented to the OMB for approval, appear to be good.
Secondly, Pinnacle has a history of starting construction on projects without waiting for a minimum threshold level (e.g. 60% or 65%) of the condominiums being sold in advance. Construction of the four tower Pinnacle complex on Lake Shore Boulevard between Bay and Yonge Streets started at the same time as sales were launched - shoring and excavation started at the north-east corner of the property while the sales pavilion was being opened on the south west corner.
The one factor I have not mentioned so far is possibly one of the most important in determining when a project will actually launch - Market Conditions. Market conditions are obviously quite good right now, but who knows what they will be when the project is actually about to come to market.
So, given the above considerations, and without me being privy to any inside knowledge (and unless anyone else has more specific knowledge) , it brings us back to the statement above: 'Probably in a year or two..... plus or minus a year or two'.
busybeaver
Active Member
The City needs to be careful with their S.37 negotiations with Pinnacle - we've already seen how this developer broke a previous agreement with the City by fencing off its privately owned public space at the Pinnacle Condo on John Street. This sets a bad precedent for future Pinnacle developments in Toronto as it compromises civic and public trust and turns its back on the local community to access and enjoy a much needed public space in an increasingly dense and busy neighbourhood.
DSCToronto
Superstar
If the POPS you speak of was properly described in the Site Plan etc they should not be able to fence it off or shut it down. I was (peripherally) involved in the one that is happening at Yonge&Rich and there it is very clear when it must be open - in that case from 7am to 8pm if I remember right. . Was the POPS on John in the Site Plan etc or was it 'informal'??
Waterloo_Guy
Active Member
I don't think it's a big deal. It doesn't compromise civic trust since almost nobody knows or cares about this stuff anyway. I doubt I've met a single person who knows or cares what a POPS is. In the grand scheme of things it just doesn't matter. Although I certainly want that POPS on John Street restored, I know that most people don't care.
As for when they go into sales, since they have made a deal on approvals, it would make sense for them to go into sales at any time that they want now.
busybeaver
Active Member
The City of Toronto legally secured public access to the open space on John Street - the fountain and public artwork - for the enjoyment of local residents, and visitors. it now appears like a fenced in private patio space for Sweet Jesus - the ice cream shop - and no longer feels inviting to the public but more for paying customers. Apparently the City notified the developer to remove the fence a while back and the dispute is making it's way through a slow, lengthy and no doubt expensive legal process.
Do we know that it was Pinnacle who fenced off the space, or whether it was the condo corp which fenced it off?
It's a big deal, whether most people know or care or not. Besides having to remove the fence, I hope that whoever erected it will be paying the City's legal fees.
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DSCToronto
Superstar
Of course it's a big deal. The building was approved in part because the developers agreed to provide some (rather minimal) 'public benefit'. The City needs to go HARD on this one and ensure the POPS agreement is respected and that all enforcement costs are charged back to the developer or the condo corporation or ?? (Whoever agreed to the fence.) Why do you say that civic trust has not been compromised because 'almost nobody knows or cares about this stuff anyway." That's a very strange 'philosophy'!