notyouagain said:
Is the City tacitly acknowledging that the Gardiner will not be demolished but, instead, will be "beautified"?
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In the last municipal election campaign, when asked about the Gardiner, Miller responded that there was no money to tear it down and replace it.

There isn't, and any money coming to the city for transportation projects should go into other pots.

Let's hope that the beautification of this spot under the highway works, and that it inspires further work to improve what we are inevitably going to have around for a long time to come.

42
 
Sir Novelty Fashion said:
As it's been reported a number of times, getting a bridge across the railway lands is no mean feat. Even getting a pedestrian bridge across, as is the plan, is proving to be a big fat struggle.
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mysteryman said:
The original master plan for the area did show the Portland Street connection but i don't think there is plan to do that in the near future.
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I was reading through the thread today and remembered this article from the Star back in July on the issue of the proposed bridge.

http://www.thestar.com/living/article/234584
 
interchange42 said:
In the last municipal election campaign, when asked about the Gardiner, Miller responded that there was no money to tear it down and replace it.

There isn't, and any money coming to the city for transportation projects should go into other pots.

Let's hope that the beautification of this spot under the highway works, and that it inspires further work to improve what we are inevitably going to have around for a long time to come.

42
Click to expand...


I guess the next question should have been, "is there money for the full-deck replacement it's going to need in order to stay standing sometime in the next ten years?"
 
There will have to be, as that will certainly cost less than burying it.

Maybe that's when the plexiglass will go in.

42
 
This kind of landscaping under the Gardiner is exactly what is needed to tie in that dead space with it's surroundings. Now, the city just needs to make more north/south connections under the Gardiner - sidewalks on both sides of the street crossing Lakeshore, lighting to make the underpasses more attractive etc.
 
^ Yes! I would add that, in addition to landscaping/parkspace, the underbelly could possibly use a few small buildings with commercial/institutional uses to bring more life/safety to the space. There's plenty of room!
 
BobBob said:
^ Yes! I would add that, in addition to landscaping/parkspace, the underbelly could possibly use a few small buildings with commercial/institutional uses to bring more life/safety to the space. There's plenty of room!
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It's possible, but I would be hesitant about putting actual buildings under the Gardiner.

1) What would the air pollution levels right under the Gardiner be like? I can certainly smell the auto exhaust when I walk under it. Walking under the Gardiner for a few minutes is one thing, but buildings would presumably be occupied by people for 8 hours or more at a stretch.

2) Noise levels?

3) If permanent buildings are built under the Gardiner, what effect would that have on the possibility of burying it one day? Rights-of-way, and so on.

Bill
 
Wasn't there a proposal to enclose the Gardiner with a canopy to prevent salt erosion?

I've always been for removing the Gardiner and compensating for the lost capacity by improving Lakeshore (turning into a University Avenue style blvd.), extending Front St. and adapting other routes. Nonetheless, with all these condos hemming in the Gardiner, not only is it becoming less likely that removing it will occur, it's becoming less necessary surprisingly.

I wouldn't mind seeing a solution that encloses the Gardiner in a sort of tunnel in the sky manner which would prevent salt erosion, funnel pollution away from highly populated areas and frankly, make this beast look a hell of a lot better.

As for building under the Gardiner, I'm not sure that's feasible with the pollution and noise levels as Mongo said, but surrounding it by trees and other greenery can attenuate both.
 
^ Of course it's feasible. Elevated expressways fly over vibrant neighbourhoods all over Asia, so all of the aforementioned problems must have a solution. I'd say an elevated expressway over accessible parkland and some shops is preferable to a ground-level 8 or 10 lane Lakeshore, which would only increase the problem of accessing the waterfront.
 
I've never quite understood the 'tear down the Gardiner' argument. Not only do tens of thousands of commuters rely on it as a part of their daily commute but it also provides an easily accessible route for trucks delivering items to downtown businesses overnight. There isn't the money to tear it down and even if we did, theres even less money to rebuild something which would provide the level of access that it does. If the Gardiner was an at-grade highway the problems of 'cutting off' the area south of it would be greatly magnified. Furthermore, those who desire a subterranean route can again be directed to the costs involved as proof of this plan's current impossibility.

I believe that the elevated Gardiner is a fine and modern solution to the problem of a downtown expressway. The real problem is how Toronto lets it decay to the point where its simply an eyesore. To (partially) alleviate its aesthetic and acoustic shortcomings, I propose both a cleanup (this could be put on developers in exchange for height?) and the installation of clear sound barriers like every other modern elevated expressway in the world. I really think this could help or hinder the eventual Cityplace Park, making it a cultural center with concerts etc. or a desolate, unused wasteland. These barriers do more than you think. Heck, these ones even seem to contain some sort of solar-power element.

pict_pvsoundbarrier.jpg


Not only do many other metropolitan centers have similar highways cutting through them, places such as Bangkok also have elevated rail. Hell, Tokyo, London, New York, Munich and countless others even have high speed rail going through them.

In short, the problem is not the edifice itself, its how we treat it.
 
Mongo said:
It's possible, but I would be hesitant about putting actual buildings under the Gardiner.

1) What would the air pollution levels right under the Gardiner be like? I can certainly smell the auto exhaust when I walk under it. Walking under the Gardiner for a few minutes is one thing, but buildings would presumably be occupied by people for 8 hours or more at a stretch.

2) Noise levels?

3) If permanent buildings are built under the Gardiner, what effect would that have on the possibility of burying it one day? Rights-of-way, and so on.

Bill
Click to expand...

Noise and pollution wouldn't be any worse than what you'll get on the lower levels of Panorama if you have a north facing unit.
 
3088817.1.f.jpg


EllisDon has been awarded a $65 million Construction Management contract for the Concord - Panorama project.

Concord - Panorama is a twenty-eight storey condo tower with a six storey podium and 3 levels of underground parking totaling 46,000 square metres. The amenities include work-out rooms, theatre, party rooms and a roof top patio with pool. The Panorama project is located on one of the most desirable downtown sites in Toronto with many of the condo and elite condo units enjoying a direct southern view of Lake Ontario.

The site is bordered by a heritage warehouse and the Gardiner Expressway adding to the construction challenges.

The construction of the Condominium tower will commence January 2008 with residential occupancy in September 2009.
 
gotta love the angle of that render... looks like the 4th or 5th floor in the podium is in danger of having a car accident come throught the living room window!

Project End, I would agree with you on The Gardiner - if they would just perform proper maintenance on it, give it a fresh coat of paint every few years it would be fine. Realistically though, as with all elements of our urban design - things deteriorate much faster in this northern climate - its hard on our building exteriors, our infrastructure, landscaping etc. Also hard to keep up on things when we have 4 or 5 months of winter when you cant work on them....
 
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