[OneCity]

I just wish they'd consolidate Pharmacy and Hakimi Lebovic into a single stop, cut Aga Khan, and just grade-separate the whole damn thing. These public consultations mean absolutely nothing if the planners are just going to recommend whatever they bloody please in spite of what the constituents are actually demanding.

Making decisions that commuters of all modes could agree upon would only be necessary if there a clear problem that existing in our City politics and it was ripe to see public support to overturn. Oh Wait?

Seriously though my biggest fear now for any current plans, is that they have been clearly designed with enough visible question marks they could be easily canceled for the usual appetite to "improve" and we once again do nothing but further analysis and debate for another decade until we do it all again. Id rather we proceed on all fronts. While this LRT is questionably designed for various reasons from shelters, number of stops, and grade separation, its still far better than building nothing which is also a realistic alternative if they cant keep moving.

 

[OneCity]

This might be a ploy to allow Tory to campaign on grade separating the intersections. So he can be the valiant definer of cars again. Probably not the case, but I hope so.

Maybe, but you never know what Tory will say or do. He'll certainly have some tricks up his sleeve with his previous ones fizzling out. Unfortunately the only guarantee is this grade separation honor will go to Doug... So how badly do you want it?

 

[Sandpit]

I just wish they'd consolidate Pharmacy and Hakimi Lebovic into a single stop, cut Aga Khan, and just grade-separate the whole damn thing. These public consultations mean absolutely nothing if the planners are just going to recommend whatever they bloody please in spite of what the constituents are actually demanding.

From what I've heard, Hakimi Lebovic is supposed to serve developments south of Eglinton, including the Eglinton bus garage. Cutting it would mean an unacceptably long walk to reach these destinations. Cutting Aga Khan is politically sensitive and could be seen as a snub to the Aga Khan/Ismaili community.

 

[crs1026]

I'm not as fussed about Royal York or Scarlett. But I certainly am about Islington, Kipling and Martin Grove.

As noted, Islington-Eglinton happens in a dip. It would not be a huge issue to just keep the LRT at the higher level, a short bit of elevated line.

Even if left at grade, those footbridges might not be a bad idea.

I think the stop structures on Eglinton East ought to be improved as well, but even if not, why commit the second wrong and get them wrong in the west.

- Paul

 

[robmausser]

Three new files were just posted to their website:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jrzqfHhIJoRSvVTwwKvVzCDh33dfu1ZH/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RJ47gh-FzGGnbFOY4KP9oZY0KTBSviCU/view

http://www.eglintonwestlrt.ca/wp-co...ge-3-Evaluation-Matrix_20171113_Accesible.pdf

Some of the Cons against the grade separation in this list are ridiculous. Like that it will cause construction. Yeah... thats what building stuff properly does!

Meanwhile, Montreal is pitching this station

We've got a bunch of floozies in city hall who are still David Miller Transit City obsessed and care more about cost cutting and street beautification than proper transit.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

How quickly they forget. From September of 2016 at this link:

City of Toronto makes changes at 10 'hotspot' intersections to improve traffic flow and safety

As part of the second phase of its congestion management plan, the City of Toronto is making changes to 10 congested intersections or "hotspots" as part of a strategy to improve the overall flow of traffic at these locations. Mayor Tory made the announcement this morning at one of the hotspots, Finch Avenue East and Victoria Park Avenue.

"The number one priority for Toronto residents is their ability to move around this city quickly and safely. We’re taking action to keep Toronto moving by targeting some of our most congested intersections in the city," said Mayor John Tory. "Targeting these intersections with common sense solutions is a low-cost, high-impact initiative to get people moving while ensuring public safety."

Transportation Services used third-party traffic data to identify these 10 congestion hotspots, measuring the traffic speed during the morning or afternoon peak period against free-flow conditions.

The following intersections were identified as congestion hotspots:
• Eglinton Avenue West and Martin Grove Road (Wards 3 and 4)
• Lawrence Avenue West and Black Creek Drive (Ward 12)
• St. Clair Avenue East and Mount Pleasant Avenue (Ward 22 and 27)
• Finch Avenue and Yonge Street (Wards 23 and 24)
• Sheppard Avenue and Yonge Street (Ward 23)
• Bloor Street East and Parliament Avenue (Ward 27 and 28)
• O'Connor Drive and Don Mills Road (Ward 29)
• Eastern Avenue and Carlaw Avenue (Ward 30)
• Finch Avenue East and Victoria Park Avenue (Wards 33, 39 and 40)
• Kingston Road and Lawrence Avenue East (Ward 43)

The City has studied these intersections to identify potential measures to reduce delays for road users and to improve safety, including:
• traffic signal retiming for peak periods
• turn restrictions
• left-turn advance green
• increasing length of green time
• installing a closed-circuit television (CCTV) camera.

More information about the measures being implemented and/or planned for each intersection is available at ow.ly/fXZL304zpcf.
​

Grade separation at Eglinton & Martin Grove for the LRT would help with traffic flow (caused by the single-occupant automobiles) by keeping the light rail vehicles away from the main cause.

 

[robmausser]

Another thing to note, why aren't they looking at lowering the road under the grade separations, as well as elevating the track?

You'd think that would be a no brainer.

Rather than raise the LRT 20 feet, you lower the road and intersection 10 feet and raise the LRT 10 feet.

Like whats done with rail underpasses.

Someone please bring that up in the next meeting.

 

[aquateam]

Three new files were just posted to their website:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jrzqfHhIJoRSvVTwwKvVzCDh33dfu1ZH/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RJ47gh-FzGGnbFOY4KP9oZY0KTBSviCU/view

http://www.eglintonwestlrt.ca/wp-co...ge-3-Evaluation-Matrix_20171113_Accesible.pdf

These reports are better than porn for transit nerds.

From reading these, my fantasy set of grade separations are:

Jane: elevated, north side
Scarlett road: elevated, north side
Royal york: elevated, centre of road but shift to north side for station (not considered)

Islington: elevated and north side with some mitigation measure for the visual obstruction, ideally expropriating the properties and re-developing them. If that can't be done then centre station.

This is the intersection in question so I don't think space constrains are insurmountable:

Kipling avenue:

North side, elevated:

Martin grove:
This is the most difficult to design for: elevated is listed as not an option because of the hydro corridor to the west, which makes sense. But this is also the intersection that has the most value in grade separating. At the same time, there is a gas line (running east/west?) that restricts underground options on the south and the reservoir on the north.

Centre, underground might be worth it, and it would avoid having to reconfigure a bunch of highway ramps. But I feel like there must be unexplored options (lowering the road, etc.) for this stop that would avoid having to bury it.

 

[Hopkins123]

From what I've heard, Hakimi Lebovic is supposed to serve developments south of Eglinton, including the Eglinton bus garage. Cutting it would mean an unacceptably long walk to reach these destinations. Cutting Aga Khan is politically sensitive and could be seen as a snub to the Aga Khan/Ismaili community.

I'm not suggesting to cut Hakimi Lebovic altogether. I'm saying instead of having two stops within 500 metres of each other largely serving the same catchment of riders, why not situate a bona fide station east of Pharmacy and west of Lebovic in the midblock trenched or elevated, like this?...

And as for Aga Khan, it will still be quite a walking distance uphill from where the LRT stop is going to be situated. How is direct bus service along Wynford Dr not a better way to serve the regulars that'll actually need such a stop? Remember too that Science Centre Station's station box will be on the east side of the Don Mills/Eglinton intersection. To have another station so closeby is ridiculous when we have far bigger fish to fry.

 

[robmausser]

These reports are better than porn for transit nerds.

View attachment 127182

From reading these, my fantasy set of grade separations are:

Jane: elevated, north side
Scarlett road: elevated, north side
Royal york: elevated, centre of road but shift to north side for station (not considered)
View attachment 127183
Islington: elevated and north side with some mitigation measure for the visual obstruction, ideally expropriating the properties and re-developing them. If that can't be done then centre station.
View attachment 127185

This is the intersection in question so I don't think space constrains are insurmountable:
View attachment 127186

Kipling avenue:

North side, elevated:
View attachment 127187

Martin grove:
This is the most difficult to design for: elevated is listed as not an option because of the hydro corridor to the west, which makes sense. But this is also the intersection that has the most value in grade separating. At the same time, there is a gas line (running east/west?) that restricts underground options on the south and the reservoir on the north.

Centre, underground might be worth it, and it would avoid having to reconfigure a bunch of highway ramps. But I feel like there must be unexplored options (lowering the road, etc.) for this stop that would avoid having to bury it.

Yes, lowering or raising the road should be looked into.

Rather than a 5% grade for the LRT, make a 2.5% grade for LRT and for cars.

 

[Hopkins123]

In summary...

People say just build something already.
Government shows what they plan to build.
People complain.
Government uses oppertunity to create a divide.
Things get delayed or cancelled.
People say just build something already...

No... don't build something just for the sake of building something to curry favor come election time. Thought and willingness to invest money needs to be put into this. Transit needs go far beyond a 4-year electoral cycle.

Build something not just for today's needs but for future needs as well. Screwing up transit in the Eglinton corridor forever is inexcusable, when if built as grade-separated the Crosstown could and would majorly compete with the Bloor-Danforth as an alternative for getting around the city/region. Cutting costs on what's the single most critical piece of new transit infrastructure built in a generation is categorically wrong.

 

[sixrings]

It's the same plan that existed since transit city. People didn't love it then but they accepted it. The problem isn't the plan it's that we heard subway subways subways and or smart track for the last 7 years that even those with realistic transit ideas have bought into the grade seperate or nothing mind set. When one city is the voice of Reason there is a problem.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Some of the Cons against the grade separation in this list are ridiculous. Like that it will cause construction. Yeah... thats what building stuff properly does!

Meanwhile, Montreal is pitching this station

We've got a bunch of floozies in city hall who are still David Miller Transit City obsessed and care more about cost cutting and street beautification than proper transit.

In that MTL station, must all passengers take the elevator? If so, that sounds really bad for passenger throughput.

 

[Hopkins123]

It's the same plan that existed since transit city. People didn't love it then but they accepted it. The problem isn't the plan it's that we heard subway subways subways and or smart track for the last 7 years that even those with realistic transit ideas have bought into the grade seperate or nothing mind set. When one city is the voice of Reason there is a problem.

Sounds like the problem was David Miller. Before and after his terms in office the plan was always to build a grade separated busway or light rail or even a standard subway line along Eglinton through the Richview lands.

Geez, look how much his 7 years in office has screwed up everybody's mindset against grade-separation.

 

[robmausser]

In that MTL station, must all passengers take the elevator? If so, that sounds really bad for passenger throughput.

Its a bunch of huge high speed elevators with large volume throughput.

Its an engineering solution to a problem, something we are unfamiliar with here in Toronto.

Toronto = "we paid a consultant firm with very specific outlines of what we wanted the results of the report to come up with, and not allow for any innovative ideas, because we favor a specific outcome over coming up with solution"

That end result is usually a half assed approach (ie no grade separations here, or a pedestrian walkway for the Waterfront LRT) or to abandon the project entirely.

The results are usually based upon "beautification" ideologies, for example with the ones I listed, "oooo at grade LRTs are so pretty" or "a walkway is so chic and European"

Just look at how the renderings for this favour the look and feel of the at grade LRT option, or how they played up the walkway for the Waterfront LRT as some kind of art installation thingy

(this image was used in the first proposal)

Meanwhile Mississauga gets a fully grade separated transitway, and York region a tunnelled subway with behemoth stations.