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- Thread starter Jonny5
- Start date
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Damn
What are the alternatives?
I wonder if it possible for anybody to legally start something that's bigger than a Uber but smaller than Greyhound? Like a variant of those "Hail/Reserve-An-Airport-Shuttle" app services I've seen in some cities, but applied to city pairs? Or one of those intercity carpool matching apps combined with a dedicated van/shortbus fleet?
I am thinking -- these new business models gotta now be viable with lower operating costs than Greyhound. Is there room for such a market to fill this void quickly with some existing "business plan" that already exists elsewhere? Preferably more local than a conglomerate -- maybe a mom-n-pop franchaise after bus training / government oversight -- or even a small crown corp -- could fill the void?
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crs1026
Superstar
^I’m sure that Greyhound will watch and try to force anyone who steps up to fill their shoes to buy them out somehow.
Nuts to that, say I.
I’m not totally clear on the regulatory process to secure a highway coach operating license, but I suspect the government would not stand in the way of anyone who tries to replace Greyhound. The problem is that it would likely be a piecemeal operation.
Possibly there are operators who might attempt a service now that Greyhound is out of the way, where it would have been pointless to try to compete and split the business in two.
I seem to recall that package express was a big revenue item for Greyhound in the past. Perhaps it’s the impact of Purolator etc, more than just declining ridership, that has pushed the service below break even.
- Paul
Nuts to that, say I.
I’m not totally clear on the regulatory process to secure a highway coach operating license, but I suspect the government would not stand in the way of anyone who tries to replace Greyhound. The problem is that it would likely be a piecemeal operation.
Possibly there are operators who might attempt a service now that Greyhound is out of the way, where it would have been pointless to try to compete and split the business in two.
I seem to recall that package express was a big revenue item for Greyhound in the past. Perhaps it’s the impact of Purolator etc, more than just declining ridership, that has pushed the service below break even.
- Paul
nfitz
Superstar
This is already being discussed in at least two other threads (https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/comprehensive-map-of-intercity-bus-service-in-ontario.26251 and https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/the-end-of-ontario-northland.18652), not sure we need another one.
I expect others to fill the void quickly abandoned by these foreigners.
Kasper Transportation is already talking about running the Thunder Bay to Winnipeg route in October.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/kasper-transportation-manitoba-expansion-1.4740987
I expect others to fill the void quickly abandoned by these foreigners.
Kasper Transportation is already talking about running the Thunder Bay to Winnipeg route in October.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/kasper-transportation-manitoba-expansion-1.4740987
amnesiajune
Senior Member
That's really just a technicality. If taxes were included in prices (like they are in every civilized part of the world except here and the US), nobody would notice this.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
It does effect affordability however as all rural routes are suddenly 13% higher.
amnesiajune
Senior Member
That has nothing to do with taxes and everything to do with the lack of a subsidy for those routes.
Can she fly? She might be able to arrange for special fares. She can also contact Hope Air: https://hopeair.ca/
With this pending shutdown, I ask this question: Is it time to nationalize, or quasi-nationalize, intercity bus travel under the Via umbrella, the same way we nationalized intercity rail travel?
Expand Via's mandate with a new coach division, and run these services with a government subsidy, since for many of the communities served, the bus is their only mass transportation option. If you want to go with a quasi-public model, give companies the ability to bid on certain routes or packages of routes, but that they run Via rolling stock, much like the way Bombardier operates GO trains.
In many places, this could offer a good opportunity to use the existing Via network as the backbone, with buses connecting to it. It also may provide a good excuse to expand the Via Rail network in order to create more backbones in western Canada (Calgary-Edmonton, Regina-Saskatoon, etc).
Expand Via's mandate with a new coach division, and run these services with a government subsidy, since for many of the communities served, the bus is their only mass transportation option. If you want to go with a quasi-public model, give companies the ability to bid on certain routes or packages of routes, but that they run Via rolling stock, much like the way Bombardier operates GO trains.
In many places, this could offer a good opportunity to use the existing Via network as the backbone, with buses connecting to it. It also may provide a good excuse to expand the Via Rail network in order to create more backbones in western Canada (Calgary-Edmonton, Regina-Saskatoon, etc).
Avenue
Active Member
Probably makes more sense to just subsidize Greyhound for these unprofitable routes.
amnesiajune
Senior Member
Intercity rail travel over long distances will never make sense economically compared to bus service. It only makes sense in smaller areas with high population densities because there are enough passengers to overwhelm air travel and spread out the high fixed cost of railways (compared to a bus service, which need a lot less infrastructure since the roads they use would be there no matter what).
In any case, I think this is a case where P3s make sense. Let private bus companies compete to get subsidies where a regular bus route isn't profitable. Have the government set the level of service that needs to be provided and the fares that they're allowed to charge, but not run the service itself.
crs1026
Superstar
I favour letting Greyhound exit and looking at what new operators emerge before talking subsidy.
Greyhound has all sorts of fixed costs and overheads that it just can’t shed. Pension liability is a good example. The new operators can likely avoid these for a while at least. They will be local and grass root, which is desirable.
Creating a government agency to run the routes is the worst possible scenario. The overheads and fixed costs will be huge. And, they will be unionised from day one. I am not anti-union, but this is the kind of scenario where unions will impair productivity from the get go - especially if they were to wrangle successor rights and carry over work rules from Greyhound.
The loss of Greyhound is painful but it presents an opportunity to start from square zero and build something completely new. In the long run, that may be a step forward.
- Paul
Greyhound has all sorts of fixed costs and overheads that it just can’t shed. Pension liability is a good example. The new operators can likely avoid these for a while at least. They will be local and grass root, which is desirable.
Creating a government agency to run the routes is the worst possible scenario. The overheads and fixed costs will be huge. And, they will be unionised from day one. I am not anti-union, but this is the kind of scenario where unions will impair productivity from the get go - especially if they were to wrangle successor rights and carry over work rules from Greyhound.
The loss of Greyhound is painful but it presents an opportunity to start from square zero and build something completely new. In the long run, that may be a step forward.
- Paul
syn
Senior Member
This would be ideal, but I can see why the routes canceled wouldn't really be profitable for any traditional bus service - even without Greyhound's current overhead.
Perhaps it's time for an UberBus or LyftBus.
Mongo
Senior Member
Dryden Airport passenger service was shut down years ago, after the terrible crash due to icing which killed 24 people.
However, it looks like other bus companies plan to fill the void. Kasper Transportation apparently plans to introduce a Thunder Bay / Winnipeg bus route about the time that Greyhound shuts down.
Bearskin flies. That’s how I used to do it. https://booking.bearskinairlines.com/SSW2010/8T87/webqtrip.html?execution=e1s1