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Allandale25 said:
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Some of the images in the video are quite dated. With Science Centre for example, see the difference between my update from last weekend vs Metrolinx:


1588261578219.png



1588261309636.png


A different angle:
1588261468239.png
 
sixrings said:
First of all I am not anti subway. However I am pro LRT. It seems if you are pro LRT then you are labeled anti subway. The DRL should be a subway. That said I am not for these suburban subway extensions. And that isn't because of spite or because I would use the DRL but rather because of numbers. AS you said the DRL will move quite a few people. On the other hand we could extend the Sheppard subway a short distance or build a complete Sheppard LRT. Im in favour of the LRT. Moving people around the suburbs is a tricky thing. I grew up near finch in Scarborough and loved the finch express. The finch express had to travel in mixed traffic though. A LRT would be in its own lane making it more reliable, smoother, and could be scheduled frequently based on its reliability. Also I dont think comparing the LRT lines as TC intended to the 506 is at all fair. One the 506 has far more lights in its way so it would have to stop far more frequently. Plus the stop spacing of the TC lines was much further apart.. Sure it isn't as fast as a subway and definitely not as fast as a car but the TC LRT lines would be significantly faster than the current busses it would replace and the 506 you have compared it to. An LRT network would mean that there are more lines increasing the speed of transit trips overall. Besides most of the trips in scarborough are within scarborough. Subway advocates will say that is because there isnt a subway which may be true but we simply do not know. Anyways a network is important to myself as a rider.
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I don't think you are being labeled anti-subway. But can you really be pro-LRTs when you're ok with the LRTs getting gimped by things like signal priority? A Crosstown without signal priority will be slower than it could (I'd even say "should") be. Toronto is building the Crosstown's at-grade section as it would a streetcar, and that's insane in my opinion. Add signal priority and crossing gates and this would not be a problem. It would get comparable speed to a regular subway. LRTs can be as high capacity as a subway.

Look at how subway like the Edmonton LRT (50km/h through intersections, and a max frequency of 2.5min and look at the Ottawa LRT(total grade separation, possibility for future automation, teething problems notwithstanding) These are proper high capacity LRTs.
We are spending more for less only to piss car drivers a little less. and that's just stupid.

The Crosstown as it stands will not come close to these two examples even though half of it is practically a European style subway. (With the other half being practically a Toronto Streetcar)
 
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at
sixrings said:
First of all I am not anti subway. However I am pro LRT. It seems if you are pro LRT then you are labeled anti subway. The DRL should be a subway. That said I am not for these suburban subway extensions. And that isn't because of spite or because I would use the DRL but rather because of numbers. AS you said the DRL will move quite a few people. On the other hand we could extend the Sheppard subway a short distance or build a complete Sheppard LRT. Im in favour of the LRT. Moving people around the suburbs is a tricky thing. I grew up near finch in Scarborough and loved the finch express. The finch express had to travel in mixed traffic though. A LRT would be in its own lane making it more reliable, smoother, and could be scheduled frequently based on its reliability. Also I dont think comparing the LRT lines as TC intended to the 506 is at all fair. One the 506 has far more lights in its way so it would have to stop far more frequently. Plus the stop spacing of the TC lines was much further apart.. Sure it isn't as fast as a subway and definitely not as fast as a car but the TC LRT lines would be significantly faster than the current busses it would replace and the 506 you have compared it to. An LRT network would mean that there are more lines increasing the speed of transit trips overall. Besides most of the trips in scarborough are within scarborough. Subway advocates will say that is because there isnt a subway which may be true but we simply do not know. Anyways a network is important to myself as a rider.
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You're reacting to a completely different response. I never labelled you as anti-subway, or not pro-LRT. My response to you was with regard to Metrolinx meddling.

I'm very pro-lrt, my name is "streety mccarface" for god's sake. I'm making the argument that in the way the city/Metrolinx is building LRT, money would be better spent elsewhere because the promised benefits are not there. The examples I listed were the RL, YNSE, TYSSE for subways, and SOGR for everything else. That part is my opinion and wasn't even a response to you.

When did I mention the sheppard subway? I said that money would be better spent on the RL and SOGR, and made the argument for the YNSE and TYSSE. I didn't mention the SSE, EWLRT, or any extension to Sheppard.

I made the point earlier that the street running LRT the city is building isn't worth it because there's no signal priority. Surface LRT commute times aren't any better than the bus. The one benefit is reliability, but that's assuming issues with the line (vehicle collisions, passenger delays, and derailments for example) aren't occurring.

The 506/Line 2 comparison is definitely unfair, but it's the closest comparison we have. The point was that people will almost always choose the faster commute (some will choose the least stressful/most cost effective), and if the faster commute is to drive, then that's what they'll choose. If the surface section of the Crosstown has speeds of 15-18 km/h (a liberal guess), then that isn't too far off the average speed of the bus (15 km/h) or even a downtown streetcar (10 km/h).
 
I'm just frustrated if we would have funded TC when we should have it would have been all done and the only thing we would have had to worry about is the DRL. Instead here comes another chopping opportunity.

For the pro subway people who say LRT fans are people without vision and are keeping the city back. How does running busses everywhere give off the impression of a city with vision. We did right by building the legacy network downtown. Why are we so stubborn to ignore building an improved version uptown?

And yes. Build the damn DRL with a subway.
 
I hope Metrolinx learns from Sydney’s less than optimal experience with its new LRT. Wait, I hear you object, a Toronto government agency learn from somewhere else? OK, point taken. And sure, one of the reasons Sydneysiders aren’t exactly thrilled is TNSW’s threat to do away with some of the Eastern Suburbs’ popular and convenient express buses in favour of local buses feeding commuters to the LRT. But screwing up transit signal priority seems to have been a big factor in Sydney’s somewhat botched launch, and my completely unscientific survey found people who use it say it’s slow as molasses. It would be nice in some fantasy Toronto if ML and the City would take note and maybe get Eglinton signal priority not totally wrong.


www.smh.com.au

Why Sydney's south east light rail is so slow and how to fix it

Don't get heavy rail experts in to tell you how to run a light rail system.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
 
sixrings said:
I'm just frustrated if we would have funded TC when we should have it would have been all done and the only thing we would have had to worry about is the DRL. Instead here comes another chopping opportunity.

For the pro subway people who say LRT fans are people without vision and are keeping the city back. How does running busses everywhere give off the impression of a city with vision. We did right by building the legacy network downtown. Why are we so stubborn to ignore building an improved version uptown?

And yes. Build the damn DRL with a subway.
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You are forgetting one "BIG" thing with TC and that is where are the cars for it as well when would TTC begin replacing the old fleet, not like it is today??

If the Sheppard Line was to be up and running by 2014 as plan, there would been no cars for it then. Same for the SRT conversion to LRT that got pushed back from 2015 to 2018 due to the Pam Am Games. That allow the opening for the useless subway extension.

Again, this is what you get when you put all your eggs in one basket and go with one supplier. Where would this line be if Metrolinx hadn't gone to a 2nd supplier even though they screw this up from day one???

Regardless of the COVID-19 mess and a drop in ridership over the coming years, still need to build the DRL/Ontario Line to Steeles due to the amount of new development on Yonge St and within a 1,200 meters of Yonge and it must be a subway. Again, this will change the current travel pattern and become a faster way to get around this city.

The sooner this line is up and running, It will change how people travel today and more so when both ends see extensions.

As much people cry for grade separation, they should check out both Phoenix and Minneapolis lines to see how they work like the Crosstown will on the surface. Minneapolis Green Line is a good example what the Crosstown Line will be come opening day for the surface section.

Metrolinx, TTC, Politicians and Council fail to understand that you move from one mold to another as ridership demands call for it like bus = BRT = LRT = Subway, not the bus = subway that takes place today. In some cases, you are force to jump molds due to road/route condition like the Crosstown Line. The Crosstown had to be an LRT underground as there wasn't any room on the surface for an BRT/LRT as the road width was too narrow.

It has been head scratching to see some cities to jump molds when ridership doesn't support it after 10 years of service or even before it was built.

Signal priority is a "MUST" and using LRT signals, other wise useless travel time. Rode ION LRT on Monday and it still a pain to ride due to crossing gates time and slow speed in a true ROW. King St operates a lot better than ION in many places that should be the opposite.
 
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From quick looking at the Caledonia Station on Wed, the Friday concrete pour will be for the slopping section to the concourse level and not all of the form work in place. Could be a 2 day pour for the amount of area to be form and pour on different weeks.

Lot of work taking place at Mount Dennis and Keeledale, with the road decking remove partly for the eastbound lanes to allow back filling.
 
I saw them lifting rails and probably installing them west of Leslie this afternoon. There were another crew around Pharmacy working on those signals.
 
NoahB said:
I don't think you are being labeled anti-subway. But can you really be pro-LRTs when you're ok with the LRTs getting gimped by things like signal priority? A Crosstown without signal priority will be slower than it could (I'd even say "should") be. Toronto is building the Crosstown's at-grade section as it would a streetcar, and that's insane in my opinion. Add signal priority and crossing gates and this would not be a problem. It would get comparable speed to a regular subway. LRTs can be as high capacity as a subway.

Look at how subway like the Edmonton LRT (50km/h through intersections, and a max frequency of 2.5min and look at the Ottawa LRT(total grade separation, possibility for future automation, teething problems notwithstanding) These are proper high capacity LRTs.
We are spending more for less only to piss car drivers a little less. and that's just stupid.

The Crosstown as it stands will not come close to these two examples even though half of it is practically a European style subway. (With the other half being practically a Toronto Streetcar)
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That's a relatively easy problem to fix if the line isn't meeting expectations.
 
WislaHD said:
Just me or do none of these look anywhere close to completion?
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You're not wrong. I can't believe they had a completion date of 2020. I think the problem is how they don't have 24hr construction. This shouldn't be taking this long. I understand it's one of (if not) the biggest transit project in North America right now, but a project this size would be done in 5-7 years max in Asia or Europe. I don't understand why everything thing transit related seems to take long in Toronto and be more expensive. Why is this??
 
syn said:
That's a relatively easy problem to fix if the line isn't meeting expectations.
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Better to design it properly from the start than try to fix a bad design years down the road.

From the same video that NoahB linked, this is how the Eglinton surface section should have been designed. No red lights and much faster travel times. It's a vastly different riding experience compared to a streetcar that stops at red lights.
 
The REAL said:
You're not wrong. I can't believe they had a completion date of 2020. I think the problem is how they don't have 24hr construction. This shouldn't be taking this long. I understand it's one of (if not) the biggest transit project in North America right now, but a project this size would be done in 5-7 years max in Asia or Europe. I don't understand why everything thing transit related seems to take long in Toronto and be more expensive. Why is this??
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I think the biggest problem is that they seem to have very few crews working on it. What they should have done is each station has a crew working on it. The above ground section should have been the last too see any finishing work done. As it is now the middle section will probably be still under construction and the above ground section will be completely fished just waiting for it to be used.
 
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