[junctionist]

To the author of this thread, I think you have answered your question in the same post in which you’ve asked it!
Judging from your comments thus far, you seem to exemplify the Torontonian attitude to the rest of this country fairly accurately… obnoxious, repugnant, and self-absorbed with an overly inflated ego - It's either your way or the highway... and then you wonder why Canada harbours such a negative impression and attitude towards its biggest city!



Actually, you should be grateful to Montreal because your city would have been nothing without it.
Toronto wouldn't even dream of becoming what it is today if it weren't for the economic demise of Montreal following the Quebec sovereignty movement in the 1960s, which resulted in a massive influx of 200,000 Anglophone Montrealers bringing with them the economic and financial engine of Canada, along with two major bank headquarters (CIBC and Scotia), dozens of big corporations, and a mass concentration of wealth.

Know your city’s history and heritage beforehand to avoid the risk of sounding like a retard.
And here is a little fun historical fact for you… Toronto got its first outdoor café as recently as 1968, since they were considered illegal due to health and safety reasons… or because no one wanted to eat outdoors, which is even sadder!

Hold on, are you suggesting that the original poster defined the actual Toronto attitude, or just the stereotype of it? As for the banks moving, it boosted the city's profile, but Montreal is still a great city today without the corporations. Toronto's rise began immediately after the war, before the radical political movements in Quebec. Canada's first subway, for instance opened in 1954. Immigration, liberalism and general postwar wealth in North America played their parts to making the city what it is today.

 

[JasonParis]

This just descended into SSC-level banter.

 

[Dilla]

I apologize for the horrible mistake that I've just made, which I would have corrected anyways had I taken another look at my post.

Pardon me, it's BMO and RBC - not CIBC and Scotia.
The essential point remains unchanged, 2 major banks have made Toronto their home, instead of Montreal.

But they DID move here, and isn't that the point? If Montreal (and I lived there myself for years) didn't have problems itself, they wouldn't have.

 

[Hydrogen]

To the author of this thread, I think you have answered your question in the same post in which you’ve asked it!
Judging from your comments thus far, you seem to exemplify the Torontonian attitude to the rest of this country fairly accurately… obnoxious, repugnant, and self-absorbed with an overly inflated ego - It's either your way or the highway... and then you wonder why Canada harbours such a negative impression and attitude towards its biggest city!

Actually, you should be grateful to Montreal because your city would have been nothing without it.
Toronto wouldn't even dream of becoming what it is today if it weren't for the economic demise of Montreal following the Quebec sovereignty movement in the 1960s, which resulted in a massive influx of 200,000 Anglophone Montrealers bringing with them the economic and financial engine of Canada, along with two major bank headquarters (CIBC and Scotia), dozens of big corporations, and a mass concentration of wealth.

Know your city’s history and heritage beforehand to avoid the risk of sounding like a retard.
And here is a little fun historical fact for you… Toronto got its first outdoor café as recently as 1968, since they were considered illegal due to health and safety reasons… or because no one wanted to eat outdoors, which is even sadder!

The thing is most Torontonians don't walk around with a puffed up, centre-of-the-universe attitude. To construe the words of a few to be the attitudes of the many is exactly the kind of thinking that results in the thoughts expressed in your first paragraph above. The truth is that every city has its group of residents who believe that their city is the best and that every other city is second rate. The same feeling exists in Montreal. Hardly anything to get too worked up about, really.

As for Toronto not being what it is today without Montreal on the basis of 200,000 Montrealers leaving their city, that's kind of funny. I'm one of those ex-Montrealers, and one reason why Toronto was a destination for so many was that it was a city that was a happening place. There was strong economic growth, stability and a sense of the future that had largely evaporated from the Montreal scene. Industrial activity in the GTA had already eclipsed that of the Montreal region by that time. In fact, the rapid expansion of Toronto's economy was well underway in the 1950's, and was quite independent of Montreal - which also was undergoing its own expansion until the the Bourassa Liberals and finally the PQ brought the show to a halt.

As for the 200,000 people who left Montreal, while many ended up in Toronto, not all did.

 

[MisterF]

To the author of this thread, I think you have answered your question in the same post in which you’ve asked it!
Judging from your comments thus far, you seem to exemplify the Torontonian attitude to the rest of this country fairly accurately… obnoxious, repugnant, and self-absorbed with an overly inflated ego - It's either your way or the highway... and then you wonder why Canada harbours such a negative impression and attitude towards its biggest city!



Actually, you should be grateful to Montreal because your city would have been nothing without it.
Toronto wouldn't even dream of becoming what it is today if it weren't for the economic demise of Montreal following the Quebec sovereignty movement in the 1960s, which resulted in a massive influx of 200,000 Anglophone Montrealers bringing with them the economic and financial engine of Canada, along with two major bank headquarters (CIBC and Scotia), dozens of big corporations, and a mass concentration of wealth.

Know your city’s history and heritage beforehand to avoid the risk of sounding like a retard.
And here is a little fun historical fact for you… Toronto got its first outdoor café as recently as 1968, since they were considered illegal due to health and safety reasons… or because no one wanted to eat outdoors, which is even sadder!

This is just what the OP was posting about. No matter what Torontonians do, they're subject to rants like this. People accuse Torontonians of being obnoxious, repugnant and self absorbed and they don't even see the irony in it. Oh well, it comes with the territory of living in the alpha city of a decentralized country.

 

[oreoshack]

To the author of this thread, I think you have answered your question in the same post in which you’ve asked it!
Judging from your comments thus far, you seem to exemplify the Torontonian attitude to the rest of this country fairly accurately… obnoxious, repugnant, and self-absorbed with an overly inflated ego - It's either your way or the highway... and then you wonder why Canada harbours such a negative impression and attitude towards its biggest city!

well thats because we're better than you(if you live in montreal). har har
no but really i didnt mean to come off that way, im sorry if i did, im just cheesed that everyone hates us thats all. and i sort of realize now that maybe it is a LITTLE bit our fault, but i only trash talk others because they trash talk toronto. what came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[Cancerous]

Hold on, are you suggesting that the original poster defined the actual Toronto attitude, or just the stereotype of it?

No, the stereotype but let me tell you something… it’s becoming increasingly harder to resist or deny that stereotype. It seems like more and more people genuinely share the original poster’s opinion and I’m afraid, with time, it will become the actual Torontonian attitude.

As for the banks moving, it boosted the city's profile, but Montreal is still a great city today without the corporations.

Beyond any shadow of the doubt… Montreal excels and surpasses Toronto in different fields. For example, Arts, Music, Entertainment, Film, and Tourism all seem to be thriving, not to mention the legendary lifestyle. The problem is to convince Torontonians that it’s not always about money, banks, and corporations that elevates the status of a city or makes it a great place to live in. It’s a bit hard to understand for people with a staunch left-brain orientation.

Toronto's rise began immediately after the war, before the radical political movements in Quebec. Canada's first subway, for instance opened in 1954. Immigration, liberalism and general postwar wealth in North America played their parts to making the city what it is today.

I'm one of those ex-Montrealers, and one reason why Toronto was a destination for so many was that it was a city that was a happening place. There was strong economic growth, stability and a sense of the future that had largely evaporated from the Montreal scene.

It’s undeniable that what happened in Montreal created a powerful impact on Toronto and it would be silly to just dismiss it as irrelevant and ephemeral. I’m sure that there were many developments that occurred in Toronto before or regardless of the drama that was taking place in Montreal; however, it had a profound and extremely significant role that shifted the centre of power 600Km west and accelerated the growth of Toronto.
Otherwise, why did the exodus begin after the Quebec nationalist movement? As far as I know, Anglophone Montrealers seemed to be pretty happy and content living there and no significant outward Toronto-bound migration occurred before the aforementioned took place.

As for the 200,000 people who left Montreal, while many ended up in Toronto, not all did.

No, not every single one did but the majority did since Toronto tended to be a more favourable destination than Calgary, Edmonton, or Vancouver.

no but really i didnt mean to come off that way, im sorry if i did, im just cheesed that everyone hates us thats all. and i sort of realize now that maybe it is a LITTLE bit our fault, but i only trash talk others because they trash talk toronto.

Well, I apologize as well if I sounded a little bit rude but I just want people to realize that modesty is a great quality to have. I am indeed a Torontonian and I just want the best for my city, that’s all.

 

[JasonParis]

Beyond any shadow of the doubt… Montreal excels and surpasses Toronto in different fields. For example, Arts, Music, Entertainment, Film, and Tourism all seem to be thriving, not to mention the legendary lifestyle. The problem is to convince Torontonians that it’s not always about money, banks, and corporations that elevates the status of a city or makes it a great place to live in. It’s a bit hard to understand for people with a staunch left-brain orientation.

Wow, you really haven't a freakin' clue what you are talking about. Which actually would be my biggest grievance with this whole "ROC hating Toronto" thing. Basically, I can easily give you a 100 things that are wrong with this city, however, much of the ROC bases their hatred not on anything real, but on things that aren't even true! When they do have a semblance of truth, they are usually based on 50 year old yarns about "Toronto The Good."

"Crime ridden, culturally devoid, dangerous, dirty, not fun, a business town, crap transit, constant traffic, left-brained, etc." Believe what you will because you will anyway, but that's not the Toronto any of us know, but that's the Toronto much of the ROC seem to believe we live in.

 

[I-Z1]

I just want people to realize that modesty is a great quality to have.

When will YOU realize it?

 

[ganjavih]

Beyond any shadow of the doubt… Montreal excels and surpasses Toronto in different fields. For example, Arts, Music, Entertainment, Film, and Tourism all seem to be thriving, not to mention the legendary lifestyle.

No, not beyond a shadow of a doubt. Very arguable.

 

[Hydrogen]

It’s undeniable that what happened in Montreal created a powerful impact on Toronto and it would be silly to just dismiss it as irrelevant and ephemeral.

Of course it's deniable. Toronto was experiencing massive growth in trade with United States. That has nothing to do with Montreal.

Before you snobbishly assert that people get the facts straight, pick up a few for yourself.

Montreal excels and surpasses Toronto in different fields. For example, Arts, Music, Entertainment, Film, and Tourism all seem to be thriving, not to mention the legendary lifestyle. The problem is to convince Torontonians that it’s not always about money, banks, and corporations that elevates the status of a city or makes it a great place to live in. It’s a bit hard to understand for people with a staunch left-brain orientation.

I see, you dismiss people who live in Toronto for being self-centred, but then invoke a narrow-minded attitude to defend what is nothing more than a subjective position.

Legendary lifestyle: that is a largely made-up description. What is so legendary about it? Can you prove this legendary lifestyle, or is this nothing more than a subjective, self-awarded honorific? Obviously it is nothing more than a bi-product of your own subjective belief in the superiority of Montreal. That makes you no better than the people in Toronto who you criticize for being self-centred.

Can you actually show that people in Toronto are only concerned about banks and corporations? I have certainly not encountered that. Maybe you can back this up by providing some reference to conversation with the over 2.5 million people who live in this city. Funny, but when I talk to some friends in Montreal, they often talk about - guess what - banks and corporations.

People like living in Toronto because of the quality of life. Your disparaging remarks are really nothing more than an attempt to insult. You are exactly what you accuse others of being.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Actually, you should be grateful to Montreal because your city would have been nothing without it.
Toronto wouldn't even dream of becoming what it is today if it weren't for the economic demise of Montreal following the Quebec sovereignty movement in the 1960s

I honestly don't know how this often quoted statement became so "factual". Yes, Toronto gained when Montreal lost...but Toronto has been the repository for the best and brightest from every corner of the nation, as well as every corner of the globe experiencing hard times ...it didn't start, or end with Montreal. What was so pivotal about it? As a proportion of what was already happening or what happened after it, it didn't really represent that much of an effect, either financially or culturally.

It was already known that Toronto was destined to overtake Montreal back in the 19th century.

Beyond any shadow of the doubt… Montreal excels and surpasses Toronto in different fields. For example, Arts, Music, Entertainment, Film, and Tourism all seem to be thriving, not to mention the legendary lifestyle.

That was a tricky statement...while Montreal may be experiencing a bigger percentage gain in some of those, it certainly doesn't excel in any of those fields in real numbers by any stretch.

As for the legendary lifestyle...well, that seems like just another pre-programed perception that is based more on romantics, rather than fact.

Personally, I find Montreal to be a more fashion-forward type of society as a whole, but not always in a good way (always found it to be still very disco-ish). Montreal can be pegged a lot easier, because it is a more homogeneous society, that doesn't change as much. Toronto is the complete opposite.

Despite all that, I still like Montreal for what it has to offer, because it is the world's only French Canadian metropolis...and that's a great thing.

The problem is to convince Torontonians that it’s not always about money, banks, and corporations that elevates the status of a city or makes it a great place to live in.

Another common perception I find from the ROC. What could be farther from the truth? Yes, Toronto is a major financial/corporate capital, but who says you have to stop there? Didn't we just rate #1 in the super-creative category? Or is Florida just a kook?

This idea that we are all just a bunch of tight-assed Conrad Blacks is hilarious.

The point is, that even though every excuse ROC gives for putting us down is generally completely the opposite in reality, it doesn't matter....the perception remains.

Now...what does that say about us....and what does that say about the ROC?

 

[Cancerous]

much of the ROC bases their hatred not on anything real, but on things that aren't even true! When they do have a semblance of truth, they are usually based on 50 year old yarns about "Toronto The Good."

"Crime ridden, culturally devoid, dangerous, dirty, not fun, a business town, crap transit, constant traffic, left-brained, etc." Believe what you will because you will anyway, but that's not the Toronto any of us know, but that's the Toronto much of the ROC seem to believe we live in.

Typical. You're so stubborn and full of yourself that you can't even fathom or accept the idea that Toronto is nothing but a utopian perfection, so you are willing to dismiss the view of the entire nation just so you emerge as the undisputable winner.
Having a discussion with you is nothing but an exercise in futility until you get your head out of your behind and start learning how to constructively criticize your city and learn from the others’ mistakes and successes to help turn it into a better place. Here is a simple and useful advice for you, it’s composed of three words: Analyze, Juxtapose, and Enhance. I’ll spell it out for you in case you don’t get it, it means the following: look at what others have, compare what you have with theirs, then improve yours and make it better than theirs. It can be applied to almost everything, especially cities.

Also, the stigma of “Toronto the Good” will forever be attached to your city as long as the streets are dead by 2AM on weekends, draconian alcohol laws are enforced, shopping malls vying to stay open during statutory holidays, subway stations that look more like public washrooms… etc.
This is a city that charges the Royal Ontario Museum (ROM) a monthly fee of $200 because one of its crystal spikes is protruding 50 metres high up in the air above the sidewalk, which is considered public property!!! Needless to say, no exception has been allowed or granted for the sake of architectural creativity and design, just an insatiable thirst for money bordering on absurdity.

Finally, stop using the abbreviation ROC because it was coined to refer to English Canada, or anywhere excluding Quebec. In other words, the ROC includes Toronto, so don’t hijack the phrase and corrupt its meaning.

Of course it's deniable. Toronto was experiencing massive growth in trade with United States. That has nothing to do with Montreal.

Whatever dude, you're entitled to your own wrong opinion.

Legendary lifestyle: that is a largely made-up description. What is so legendary about it?

That’s okay, some people just don’t get it…

 

[Cancerous]

It was already known that Toronto was destined to overtake Montreal back in the 19th century.

I'm curious to know who anticipated that and on the basis of what, could you please elaborate and back up your statement?

Montreal can be pegged a lot easier, because it is a more homogeneous society, that doesn't change as much. Toronto is the complete opposite.

That is a myth... while Montreal is a bit more homogeneous society than Toronto, it is by no means stagnant. Montreal is very dynamic and gets numerous international immigrants annually, especially from previous Francophone colonies such as Morocco, Algeria, Cote d'Ivoire, Lebanon, Vietnam, Haiti, as well as Romania, Armenia, and Latin America. In fact, it is often said and agreed upon that the future of Montreal rests in the hands of Allophones.
Also, you can visit the St. Laurent boulevard (also known as The Main) to see the profound fingerprint that Montreal's Allophones have left on the city... the street contains Little Italy, Chinatown, and Little Portugal... Arab, Greek, and Jewish neighbourhoods and establishments can be found there as well.

Montreal went through an extremely radical change between the 1960s and today. The Catholic Church has lost its power and ceased to play the role of the Big Brother and control the life of the Quebecois, giving way to one of the most liberal and lax societies in North America… so why would the change stop there?

 

[I-Z1]

Whatever dude, you're entitled to your own wrong opinion.

You debate like a 10 year old...how can his opinion be wrong?

Why do you hate everyone so much?