C
Comrad Miller
Guest
I have heard conflicting information - did Porter build a new customs facility or is it the same old shack?
H
Hydrogen
Guest
Archivist
Senior Member
Fly now on Porter. With fares like that, such a small network, massive and frequent advertising, half empty planes, and gas prices going through the roof, they'll be going under before very long.
The Island Airport, which I've used many dozens of times and am quite fond of, is a graveyard of airlines. Nothing that I've heard about Porter suggests that they will be anything but a blip. In the meantime, I'd certainly take advantage.
The Island Airport, which I've used many dozens of times and am quite fond of, is a graveyard of airlines. Nothing that I've heard about Porter suggests that they will be anything but a blip. In the meantime, I'd certainly take advantage.
B
Bigchew
Guest
Recent indications are that planes are less full these days....Porter is being hit on a few fronts:
1) The recession is hurting....many of Porter's customers are likely in finance...the investment bankers, corporate lawyers, etc are feeling a tonne of pain now. Deals are scarce. Much less need to fly.
2) Fuel prices skyrocketing
3) Now the FAA is trying to cut back on Porter's slots in New Jersey. Importantly, they are proposing to eliminate Porter's evening slots. That would be devastating to Porter and Porter has stated this themselves in their complaint to the FAA.
1) The recession is hurting....many of Porter's customers are likely in finance...the investment bankers, corporate lawyers, etc are feeling a tonne of pain now. Deals are scarce. Much less need to fly.
2) Fuel prices skyrocketing
3) Now the FAA is trying to cut back on Porter's slots in New Jersey. Importantly, they are proposing to eliminate Porter's evening slots. That would be devastating to Porter and Porter has stated this themselves in their complaint to the FAA.
jn_12
Senior Member
I'd be really interested to hear where you're getting your info about the low flight loads and the fuel costs hurting porter?
Considering the Q-400 is one of the better planes out there when it comes to fuel consumption, I don't see how the fuel issue affects them more then any other airline. And, unless you see the flight loads everyday (which I can assume you don't, because you haven't come up to me and said Hi at work) you wouldn't have a clue what the loads are like on a flight by flight basis.
Considering the Q-400 is one of the better planes out there when it comes to fuel consumption, I don't see how the fuel issue affects them more then any other airline. And, unless you see the flight loads everyday (which I can assume you don't, because you haven't come up to me and said Hi at work) you wouldn't have a clue what the loads are like on a flight by flight basis.
Earlscourt_Lad
Active Member
I enjoyed that.
B
Bigchew
Guest
Yes, the Q-400 has better fuel consumption. Yes, the fuel issue does not affect Porter more than any other airline. That does not mean that higher fuel costs are not hurting Porter. They most certainly will be....unless they are hedging, but even hedges roll off sooner or later. The most efficient airline in Europe is suffering badly because of high fuel costs....the stock is down over 50% this year.
I am getting my info on low flight loads from two independent sources. One is from someone with first hand observation and the other is from a more general source. But, you sound like you are an employee and thus know more than I. What is your observation regarding flight loads?
I didn't mean to upset anyone here....just stating the facts as I see it that's all. From what I know about Deluce is that he is an oustanding businessman and what I have seen thus far from Porter is very impressive. If there is anyone that can make a go out of the Island Airport, it is Deluce. The Chairman, Don Carty is also an outstanding businessman. Furthermore, all the private equity players that have invested with Porter are first class in every way. If you work there, you couldn't have better management or partners. From a customer perspective, everyone that I know that has flown on Porter loves it and plans to be a repeat customer.
One last thing....I love the fact that Air Canada will be getting some much needed competition!
Archivist
Senior Member
Porter is a nice idea at the wrong time. The full page ads in the Globe every single day, the high end service, the low fares, the fact that no one who has ever flown Porter has told me that the flight has been anything more than half full or so, the demise of a dozen or so other airlines in the last two months (including above all those aimed at a specific market like discount or business class) means to me that we will pick up a newspaper one day and see that Porter is no more.
I say this not out of any dislike of Porter specifically, but out of a belief that almost all airlines will have an extremely hard time surviving in the next few years. (Full disclosure: My parter works for Air Canada, and I fully expect AC will have its own turbulent times in the near future as well).
I say this not out of any dislike of Porter specifically, but out of a belief that almost all airlines will have an extremely hard time surviving in the next few years. (Full disclosure: My parter works for Air Canada, and I fully expect AC will have its own turbulent times in the near future as well).
simply Dan
Active Member
The direct economic impact Porter has had on the City of Toronto is nothing to scoff at... they fly new planes made in the city (at Downsview), employ people who reside here and have their head office located here as well. The lawyers, bankers and marketers all work here and taxes are paid to the city.
Having a quick and easy link to other urban destinations from downtown Toronto is fantastic and provdes an additional travel choice for locals. I hope they end up being successful long-term, but with today's fuel prices and a slowing economy it is difficult to predict.
Having a quick and easy link to other urban destinations from downtown Toronto is fantastic and provdes an additional travel choice for locals. I hope they end up being successful long-term, but with today's fuel prices and a slowing economy it is difficult to predict.
Hypnotoad
Senior Member
I will only fly Porter to and from Ottawa and I'm not sure as convinced that its demise is imminent.
Several of my flights have been at or near capacity.
Several of my flights have been at or near capacity.
jn_12
Senior Member
While Porter obviously doesn't have the loads that Air Canada or WestJet have, there's been a steady climb in numbers even over the last 6-8 months. Everyday I get people who tell me that they're telling their friends and family to fly Porter simply because of the experience, and that's a good sign for any business.
As I've mentioned before, I can't go into details about flight loads but I can say a few things. First, it all depends on the time of day you fly. Obviously, since Porter caters to business people, the loads are strongest first thing in the morning and between 4-7:30 each evening. If you fly between 9am and 4pm, or you're on the last flight out at 9:30pm, you're going to see lower loads (even then they're likely to be at least 35% full which is profitable). Second, for the first time since I've worked there, the flights to and from Montreal are regularly fuller than Ottawa. Montreal is a bigger market and it took a little longer for things to pick up there, but now it's reached a point where we're adding an extra flight everyday to meet demand. If you're picking up steam in a big market, that's a good thing too. Third, weekend travel has probably doubled since I started there and you'll never see a plane on a weekend less than half full.
Of course, the airline industry is always on the cusp. Some people I work with worked with Canada 3000 and JetsGo before coming here and they never saw the demise of those companies coming, so anything could happen, but I think Porter will be in good shape especially since it will be going to large American routes (Chicago, Boston, Philly, Washington) in the near future. Ya, gas prices are going to cause some problems but until there's an alternative option for business people (like high speed rail), they won't take the train to get somewhere in 4 hours when they could be there in an hour.
As I've mentioned before, I can't go into details about flight loads but I can say a few things. First, it all depends on the time of day you fly. Obviously, since Porter caters to business people, the loads are strongest first thing in the morning and between 4-7:30 each evening. If you fly between 9am and 4pm, or you're on the last flight out at 9:30pm, you're going to see lower loads (even then they're likely to be at least 35% full which is profitable). Second, for the first time since I've worked there, the flights to and from Montreal are regularly fuller than Ottawa. Montreal is a bigger market and it took a little longer for things to pick up there, but now it's reached a point where we're adding an extra flight everyday to meet demand. If you're picking up steam in a big market, that's a good thing too. Third, weekend travel has probably doubled since I started there and you'll never see a plane on a weekend less than half full.
Of course, the airline industry is always on the cusp. Some people I work with worked with Canada 3000 and JetsGo before coming here and they never saw the demise of those companies coming, so anything could happen, but I think Porter will be in good shape especially since it will be going to large American routes (Chicago, Boston, Philly, Washington) in the near future. Ya, gas prices are going to cause some problems but until there's an alternative option for business people (like high speed rail), they won't take the train to get somewhere in 4 hours when they could be there in an hour.
fiendishlibrarian
Active Member
Porter kicks ass. Prompt service, free wine, and hey, Kim Cattral sat in front of my gf and I on our flight to NYC (Newark) where I'm posting from...just amazing service...and the flight was *packed*.
Did I mention the free wine?
Did I mention the free wine?
Archivist
Senior Member
jn_12 - I have always heard good things about Porter, and I wish it well. I'm happy to hear loads are increasing. I certainly don't mean anything personal by it.
I couldn't believe reading in the paper that someone is planning to start an airline out west that will have direct flights from smaller centres to sun destinations. Air travel has always attracted money, though it's a really hard business to make a go of. These days, it's almost impossible to turn a profit, as airlines around the world are discovering.
I couldn't believe reading in the paper that someone is planning to start an airline out west that will have direct flights from smaller centres to sun destinations. Air travel has always attracted money, though it's a really hard business to make a go of. These days, it's almost impossible to turn a profit, as airlines around the world are discovering.
jn_12
Senior Member
for sure. Another airline in Britain went under today.
And no worries, I don't take anything personal when it comes to Porter. I just work there to pay the bills. I just think there's a lot of misinformation that stems from when Porter just started and loads were regularly single digits.
And no worries, I don't take anything personal when it comes to Porter. I just work there to pay the bills. I just think there's a lot of misinformation that stems from when Porter just started and loads were regularly single digits.
H
Hydrogen
Guest
The "efficiency" of the airline may bear little relation to the stock price. Porter does not have the same overhead as a major airline. And so long as people need to fly, and so long as they maintain the loyalty of their customers, Porter has a fighting chance. It's hard to find people who have anything terrible to say about the company.