Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
But what would you do on arrival in Toronto? Simply 'miss' your connecting flight? That's assuming you needed to and could pick up all your luggage there.
But what would you do on arrival in Toronto? Simply 'miss' your connecting flight? That's assuming you needed to and could pick up all your luggage there.
Ahab
New Member
I think Porter's NYC service wil be a huge success and the number of leisure travellers taking advantage of the service will really good. I've flown with Porter to Montreal and Ottawa a number of times and it makes you feel like you have been treated like cattle all these years by Air Canada in comparison.
The strength of the Canadian dollar, the discounted weekend hotel rates in NYC combined with the convenience of the island airport in Toronto and train transportation from Newark directly to Penn station makes NYC a fantastic long weekend option. I think the best thing about the island airport is not the Porter lounge, but the quick trip home once you land.
The strength of the Canadian dollar, the discounted weekend hotel rates in NYC combined with the convenience of the island airport in Toronto and train transportation from Newark directly to Penn station makes NYC a fantastic long weekend option. I think the best thing about the island airport is not the Porter lounge, but the quick trip home once you land.
Kitsune
Senior Member
This article was published last year ....
http://www.northernontariobusiness.com/industry/transportation/04-07-porter.asp
Porter has aggressive plans to expand flights into more destinations in Canada and the U.S. over next few years, including the New York area, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit and even Northern Ontario.
Deluce says they are looking forward to serving Thunder Bay, Sault Ste. Marie, Sudbury, Timmins “in the not-too-distant future.
“We have a strong connection with Northern Ontario and we always felt we could go back and provide a level of service no longer enjoyed, and do it at competitive prices.â€
So you would be amazed - they are looking at Northern Ontario ....
jn_12
Senior Member
it's true. Next month I'm flying with Porter to Newark, catching a Air Canada Jazz flight from there to Montreal then connecting to a flight to Heathrow. My return flight is direct from London to Toronto. The price: $432 incl. tax. Mind you I have a cheap flight with Porter, but even without it you're looking at $300 savings. Mind you, you can get flights on Zoom and AC at non-peak times of the year for $99 and $125 each way (AC has a sale right now for 125) which would come to around 500 or so with tax. That's not too bad for an overseas flight. Flights out of the USA will only get cheaper though with the Open Skies agreement coming in. Ryanair is already making plans.
Simply put, you can't. Unless you're sick and they will not pull your bags. Most tickets as well come with the provision that you need to use all steps of your itinerary. I guess you could fake a sickness and get out of your last leg, but you'd be screwed if you weren't able to.
Northern Ontario probably isn't for a while. First of all, they'd need the planes, which can't just magically appear (They have 6, and 6 are on the way with 8 more optioned), and second, there are a bunch of US destinations that will come first. Also, just because Deluce says he wants to do Northern Ontario, doesn't mean that you're going to see the service that was provided to Ottawa, Montreal and Newark with 7-10 daily flights.
adma
Superstar
You know what'd be cool? If Porter could revive the flying boat
ShonTron
Moderator
If Porter could do Sudbury, I could see it at most two flights a day, Monday-Friday with perhaps one Sunday RT. Maybe enter into a loose alliance with Bearskin or someone else.
Timmins? Seriously? Now we're entering Michel Leblanc territory.
Timmins? Seriously? Now we're entering Michel Leblanc territory.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I agree. It was an idea that should never have been abandoned even if the aircraft rarely used the feature. I find it ridiculous that the seat pocket safety guides on almost all aircraft show what to do in the event of a water landing but none of the aircraft have been designed or tested to handle a water landing. The picture on the safety card shows an aircraft floating nicely in the water. What a joke. Planes with under body wings, engines hanging off the wings, and low mounted horizontal stabilizers aren't going to land successfully in water.
Here is one that is designed for water...
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Beriev-Be-200ChS/1311034/M/
TKTKTK
Senior Member
To be fair, on most jets they don't really expect water landings to be successful, at most they're hoping for survivable.
Sir Novelty Fashion
Senior Member
W/rt Northern Ontario, I believe the timing was around Thanksgiving 2008, at least for the Sault. Not that timing projections count for much.
Air Canada does about five round trip flights to the Sault from Pearson every day. Planes (Dash 8 -100s and -300s) are often full, and prices are outrageous. I have no doubt that Porter could fill planes here.
Not that I know what I'm talking about, but if Porter is taking delivery of a handful of Q400s and is talking about servicing northern destinations, would it be feasible for them to devote one plane to it, and hit them serially each day, bouncing from Toronto-Timmins, Toronto-Sudbury, Toronto-YYZ, and so on? Each destination gets one flight a day...
I would be amazed if there was any kind of "loose alliance" with Bearskin, Sean. Have you ever been on / spoken with anyone who's been on a Bearskin flight? It's bush flying: the ultimate in rustic puddlejumping. I can't think of anything less Porter-ish.
Air Canada does about five round trip flights to the Sault from Pearson every day. Planes (Dash 8 -100s and -300s) are often full, and prices are outrageous. I have no doubt that Porter could fill planes here.
Not that I know what I'm talking about, but if Porter is taking delivery of a handful of Q400s and is talking about servicing northern destinations, would it be feasible for them to devote one plane to it, and hit them serially each day, bouncing from Toronto-Timmins, Toronto-Sudbury, Toronto-YYZ, and so on? Each destination gets one flight a day...
I would be amazed if there was any kind of "loose alliance" with Bearskin, Sean. Have you ever been on / spoken with anyone who's been on a Bearskin flight? It's bush flying: the ultimate in rustic puddlejumping. I can't think of anything less Porter-ish.
ShonTron
Moderator
Yes, in fact I know people that have done the bush runs like Bearskin. Small airlines like that lack the connections to Toronto (I believe they ran into Buttonville at one point, and do/did serve Ottawa). If they could co-ordinate schedules at least, it might work.
Someone who does the Toronto-Sudbury or Toronto-Sault runs might know better, but aren't a lot of those Northern Ontario runs dependent on connection traffic, or are most just heading to YYZ?
Jetsgo made some of those Northern Ontario runs. Timmins was ecstatic that jet planes (even if they were Fokker 100s) were serving them. AC Jazz followed suit, and once Jetsgo was gone from that city, AC went back to the Dashes.
Someone who does the Toronto-Sudbury or Toronto-Sault runs might know better, but aren't a lot of those Northern Ontario runs dependent on connection traffic, or are most just heading to YYZ?
Jetsgo made some of those Northern Ontario runs. Timmins was ecstatic that jet planes (even if they were Fokker 100s) were serving them. AC Jazz followed suit, and once Jetsgo was gone from that city, AC went back to the Dashes.
andomano
Active Member
Thunder Bay itself gets a lot of air traffic with something like 8 flights a day from AC and a couple from westjet which both go to YYZ. Bearskin (or Scareskin to those who have flied with them) used to fly to Buttonville for a hefty price. They aren't the ultimate in rustic puddlejumping... there are a couple of charter companies that are much worse.
In my eyes Thunder Bay would be the most profitable of any of the Northern stops as YQT acts as a gateway to the Northwest, and is the third busiest by passenger movements in Ontario.
Sir Novelty Fashion
Senior Member
I don't know about the others, but from the Sault perspective, there's barely any connecting activity at all. The Sault airport handles five AC flights to YYZ a day, and far fewer Bearskin planes, which are much smaller themselves. Unlike Timmins or Thunder Bay, the Sault really isn't a gateway to much in the way of northern hinterland (Wawa?). So most people who arrive here on AC are destined here.
CDL.TO
Moderator
You misunderstand. SeanTrans said "aren't a lot of those Northern Ontario runs dependent on connection traffic, or are most just heading to YYZ?", asking if the Northern Ontario routes are dependent on connections in Toronto, not in the Soo.
I think a majority of travellers on the AC N.Ont routes are headed to/from Toronto (government workers, businessmen, hospitals, entertainment, etc...), but connections still make up a substantial portion are still connecting and Porter simply won't be able to compete on those trips.
Westjet tried a daily flight between YYZ and the Soo (I love it... "YAM") and that failed. Soo airport also draws in many passengers from northern Michigan.
Bearskin did run in to Buttonville, but only served Ottawa from there. It was a direct attempt at stealing some traffic from AC. They're now doing Waterloo-Ottawa.
Look at their route map, Bearskin is not a bush puddlejumping airline. You're showing your ugly Torontonian side.
They fly 19-seat planes, other airlines that have similar 19-seat plans on connecting routes include Continental, US Airways, Midwest, and Air Canada (!).They simply don't fly floatplanes or fly you into the bush. I'd wager that most of their traffic is between airports that AC Jazz fly to, but between those cities rather than simply to Toronto. I know it plays an important role for government workers and businessmen along the Hwy 17 corridor (Ottawa<>North Bay<>Sudbury<>Soo<>Thunder Bay<>Winnipeg).
LOL. I didn't know that. Reminds me of all the projections that Porter would fail because "people want to fly jets".
Sir Novelty Fashion
Senior Member
Sean's question was ambiguous enough that I actually answered both interpretations of it first, before deciding I was being silly and settling on what I thought was the more obvious one. Oops.
At any rate, I think you're right about the other end of the connection: it's hard to get from Northern Ont. into the wider world without connecting through Pearson. (Bearskin rates are exorbitant; there's also one CRJ to Detroit that leaves one of the Sault Ste. Marie, MI airports each day.)
Almost, but not exactly. The Westjet flight went to Hamilton; this was before they moved into Pearson. I took it once; it was disasterous. Despite being marginally cheaper than AC, the extra travel time and hassle meant I would have been better off on Air Canada Jizz.
They also flew jets westbound from the Sault, to Winnipeg and on to Vancouver (I think). Nobody's tried that in a while. The company line after they pulled out was that 737s were too big for the run; if they'd had smaller planes, they'd go back in. (Which is easy to say when your business model calls for never, ever using anything other than 737s.)
The Pearson connection factor puts an upper limit on how much traffic Porter can handle from Northern Ontario. But one flight a day to each city? I bet Toronto proper could produce that much SLF.
Look at their route map, Bearskin is not a bush puddlejumping airline. You're showing your ugly Torontonian side.
Okay, okay, it was a moment of hyperbole. Real bush puddlejumping is on display here. (You should come visit! Neat museum.)
My point really was that an alliance between Porter (refinement, service, ceci-n'est-pas-un-turboprop) and Bearskin (utility, ruggedness, curtain-for-a-cockpit-door) is hard to fathom for a company so brand-conscious as Porter.
And don't call me Torontonian! I just drove for a day to arrive back in the Sault for a tropical vacation. Any idea how much snow we have here? Why don't you call in the arrrrmyyyyy to plough your streets!
CDL.TO
Moderator
I stand corrected about Soo<>YYZ. I forgot about that, and I didn't know that they flew to Winnipeg from there.
I could see Porter doing one round trip a day. Counting that the folks on AC are usually (as I said before) businessmen, government workers, and people headed to Toronto facilities like the hospital, the Island would be very convenient.
I've been to the Bushplane museum. I remember when it opened; they do a great job. Unlike the Norgoma, which was just kinda gross.
Yeah, I know how much snow is up there. I hear all about it every year from my uncle and cousins! Let me guess, you need a ladder to get the snow on top of the pile (aka wall) beside the driveway? Or perhaps it's bad enough that people are avoiding the Station Mall for fear of being crushed?