EastYorkTTCFan said:
Whatever neither side is going to win this debate we just need to accept what is going to happen wether we like it or not unfortunately that's the reality of how the world works to quote the rolling Stones "you can't always get what you want."
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Governments change, and contracts can, as this government has shown, be ripped up. Not suggesting this is a desirable thing at this point - but it may yet, should these proposals prove wanting as more details become available.

AoD
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
True but that doesn't mean that the next government is going to build a large free park on the grounds of Ontario place I'm sorry but that land is too valuable to just waste as a park.
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I don't care for a large, entirely free park - I want a balance of public and private development that pay attention to public space along the water. These proposals may yet achieve that - but I am watching.

AoD
 
concrete_and_light said:
Yes, it may be the reality that Doug Ford will get what he wants, thanks to our fellow citizens who voted for him and the PC party and his and their lack of respect towards having a process of public engagement on anything or a thoughtful plan for things beyond "sell it out to business buddies", but that's a sad reality and we should be able to express that. I do accept it's going to happen, but it still sucks and this is a forum where we talk about things and express our opinions...
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Even if there was a full public consultation process I highly doubt that we would end up with a free park. If we did one with all of Ontario involved everyone outside of Toronto would complain about how Toronto gets everything and their small town gets nothing so why should they care about something in Toronto and it would be better off if the government sod it to someone else to deal with. Then you have people in Toronto who don't really care about it either because they can go to wet and wild if they want a waterpark or they can go to the boardwalk for a beach if they want one.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Even if there was a full public consultation process I highly doubt that we would end up with a free park. If we did one with all of Ontario involved everyone outside of Toronto would complain about how Toronto gets everything and their small town gets nothing so why should they care about something in Toronto and it would be better off if the government sod it to someone else to deal with. Then you have people in Toronto who don't really care about it either because they can go to wet and wild if they want a waterpark or they can go to the boardwalk for a beach if they want one.
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I have not personally been advocating for a free park.

I'm also not convinced that these businesses here as proposed are going to be successful. Are they really going to pull in enough people to keep them viable? The site is extremely inaccessible and the attractions might not be compelling enough to justify the cost and the journey to reach them to a degree sufficient enough to sustain their operations on an ongoing basis.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
I don't care for a large, entirely free park - I want a balance of public and private development that pay attention to public space along the water. These proposals may yet achieve that - but I am watching.

AoD
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Unfortunately I don't think that even if there was a public consultation we would have gotten that. I'm all for waiting to see what happens as well but I don't see how complaining on here about it will actually do anything.
 
concrete_and_light said:
I have not personally be advocating for a free park.

I'm also not convinced that these businesses here as proposed are going to be successful. Are they really going to pull in enough people to keep them viable? The site is extremely inaccessible and the attractions might not be compelling enough to justify the cost and the journey to reach them to a degree sufficient enough to sustain their operations on an ongoing basis.
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I am pretty sure LiveNation is going to be fine - it's basically an updated Molson Amphitheatre. That Ecoreco and Therme proposal? I am not so sure about those two, but frankly it is their money. As long as it is a non-transferrable, conditional lease that is specific to the proposed use, not that much of an issue - but I'd be watching for any bait-and-switch attempts.

AoD
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Unfortunately I don't think that even if there was a public consultation we would have gotten that. I'm all for waiting to see what happens as well but I don't see how complaining on here about it will actually do anything.
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Why are you on a forum if you do not wish to have discussion and just want to shut down other perspectives and tell them not to say what they think?
 
To me it is accessibility. For someone like Doug Ford, he wouldn't use public transit, he doesn't see the problem. For those, like me, who used public transit to get to and from Ontario Place, it is a problem having to cross all the parking lots.

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From link.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
I am pretty sure LiveNation is going to be fine - it's basically an updated Molson Amphitheatre. That Ecoreco and Therme proposal? I am not so sure about those two, but frankly it is their money.

AoD
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Ah yes, definitely agreed! The concert venue is the exception — that will be successful I think and is already proved to be a viable business for the site. It's the other new aspects that I'm referring to.
 
concrete_and_light said:
Ah yes, definitely agreed! The concert venue is the exception — that will be successful I think and is already proved to be a viable business for the site. It's the other new aspects that I'm referring to.
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The bright side is that the Eco-reco footprint is really small; I think Therme is going to be the big question mark. I would NOT be surprised if the will try and modify to proposal to add other uses.

AoD
 
Perhaps it's the eternal optimist in me but here are a few things I noted from their presentation last week which make gave me some hope that things may look up for OP.

1. Lisa McLeod mentioned that they were not finished and more partnerships could be coming on in the future. Perhaps this could lead to the parking lots being developed at some point. It's a shame to have such large parking lots on the waterfront like we do.

2. Lisa McLeod also mentioned there have been discussions to bring a science centre experience to OP. She didn't elaborate so not sure if they would move it fully here or just run a new science centre 2.0 but this could be a good use for some of the pods.

3. John Tory described how the province and city have been working well together on this project and they would look to develop Ex grounds in concert with OP. So they wouldn't be "competing" with each other but rather be complimentary. This was key as to really have success, they need to consider both areas in their plans.

4. Tory also referenced a need for a "connection" from Ex to OP. I have heard this brought up before when the Ontario Line was being introduced. I can't cite where I saw it but I recall reading reports about creating a link from Ex to OP where the govt said the actual Link could be an "attraction" onto itself. Not sure if this is monorail, people mover, gondola...or maybe none of the above. No idea. But, given it has come up a few times, it (hopefully) suggests they don't intend to have people walk from the Ontario Line stop all the way to OP and something is cooking.

5. Finally, they also said they would hold public consultations now that the plans are out. I would assume the partnership deals already struck (Therme, LiveNation, EcoGroup) would remain but I hope this allows us the opportunity to make adjustments to the plans to make them better. Personally, I would like to see Therme scaled back a bit...or maybe moved to one of the parking lots in OP and The Ex with a connection over the Lake Shore. (Tory did say they need to work together!!!)

I did say I am an optimist....
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
One basic aspect missing is public access to the edge of the water for the rest of the OP shoreline, along the lines of Trillium Park/Davis Trail - it's an easy win - but had absolutely zero mention in what's been proposed. This isn't something that should have been left to the private sector proponents.

AoD
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It's been quite clear that there will be public access to the shore around the Therme pavilions, 8 acres of freely-accessible open space.

42
 
interchange42 said:
It's been quite clear that there will be public access to the shore around the Therme pavilions, 8 acres of freely-accessible open space.

42
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I meant more along the lines of Trillium Park, not a potential strip - details matter, and there aren't much to be had. Words are cheap.

AoD
 
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