downtownordinary said:
Agreed that this is a very informative piece.

With regards to your comment about how the addition of 75M of additional track could cost that much, it actually probably isn't far off. With the way these P3 contracts are designed any changes to work that isn't in the initial scope will come at a huge premium. The builder/designer do not have to compete with other companies for the cost so essentially can charge what they want. It's more than just the cost of materials, they would charge for additional design work, review times AND the risk that it could have to delaying their completion time. The last one being the biggest part because if they miss their scheduled completion date then they start racking up interest payments since they are also financing this project.
Click to expand...

I would note that the City of Brampton agreed to eat the design costs.

The province can easily agree to begin making its payments on the existing schedule, irrespective of any delay cause at this particular location.
Which really shouldn't be material.

downtownordinary said:
This is obviously the wrong design and I think everyone involved knows that
Click to expand...

Agreed.

downtownordinary said:
but it would take the political will and biting the bullet for the additional cost to do something about it (which for the record I think they should) .
Click to expand...

On the first part, while it certainly is a political decision as to whether to amend the contract/design, I don't see this is a high burden choice. There are no real opponents to the change, and in a worst case scenario of costs, this is barely a rounding error on the provincial budget.

downtownordinary said:
With the approach that Metrolinx is taking with Scarborough subway, Eglinton West LRT and the Ontario Line without developing a more detailed design before awarding contracts I foresee incidents' like this happening again and again where we get the cheapest option built because that's all the contract required the contractor to do. Unfortunately this won't be the last time we see the wrong decision get made or we'll pay a premium to have the corrections made.
Click to expand...

That's a very real concern.
 
Northern Light said:
I would note that the City of Brampton agreed to eat the design costs.

The province can easily agree to begin making its payments on the existing schedule, irrespective of any delay cause at this particular location.
Which really shouldn't be material.




On the first part, while it certainly is a political decision as to whether to amend the contract/design, I don't see this is a high burden choice. There are no real opponents to the change, and in a worst case scenario of costs, this is barely a rounding error on the provincial budget.
Click to expand...
Absolutely they can agree to making payments earlier but unfortunately agreeing to an adjusted schedule is never that black and white. There are thousands of other things that could be delaying the project unrelated to this design change and when all those things are happening at once it's difficult to fully determine the cause of the delay. The schedules can be manipulated any number of ways to show X causes this delay with cascading effects. Obviously Metrolinx and IO review those things but it gets complicated quickly. So part of not wanting to change it may be due to inertia. The Contractor may give an outrageous estimate for the additional work because they don't want to go through the headache of changing schedules and going down a scheduling battle with Metrolinx and Infrastructure Ontario.

And while the cost may be a rounding error on the provincial budget it would still be a significant impact on the project budget as well as potentially Metrolinx program budget and may require Treasury Board resubmissions to get the funding. If there is the political will to do it, it can be done but either way, since its a change to an existing contract it will cost a premium and the costs are not as outrageous as they initially appear. Sorry for getting in the weeds here a bit, just trying to flag the concerns with the delivery model and not necessarily specific to this project.
 
ARG1 said:
Is this the whole "We know this choice makes more sense but we do not want to reopen the EA" thing again?
Click to expand...
I don’t think an EA is the issue, more that allowing this will open the door to design changes in other projects once they are procured - regardless of who’s paying for this.

Guess we’re not seeing a Finch extension to Woodbine any time soon.
 
Northern Light said:
That 'love' is not for the outcome to date; but for the incredible amount of hardwork; and $ you've put into investigating this further.

Above and beyond the call of duty. Exceedingly informative. My Thanks!

****

From Sean's piece, which I highly recommend reading in its totality.............one thing stood out that needed to be brought forward here:

View attachment 340264

A turn-of-phrase that I will not post here but but is 2 words the first of which starts with F..............immediately came out of my mouth.

Put simply, I don't find the idea that 75M of additional track/wire etc could cost that much credible.
Click to expand...

It’d also include an extra set of signals and potentially a more complex crossover. Given the issues of reopening a live contact, even for a short section where work hasn’t even started yet, it’s not extremely ridiculous, though it’s still a lot.
 
allengeorge said:
I don’t think an EA is the issue, more that allowing this will open the door to design changes in other projects once they are procured - regardless of who’s paying for this.

Guess we’re not seeing a Finch extension to Woodbine any time soon.
Click to expand...
Probably, although I can't see how this relates to a Woodbine extension of Finch West. As shown with the Main Street extension of the Hurontario LRT and Eglinton East extension, future extensions to these projects are definitely on the table, and the sore spot seems to be making last minute changes to projects already in procurement.
 
It is pure BS that it will cost $15 million to move the LRT station from one side of the intersection to the other when only 75 meters of track is require at a cost of few $100,000. The cost of the station remains the same regardless which side it is on.

Changing an contract happen all the time and have done it over a 1,000's time with contract going up in price or down with some sort of profit built in with each type of options. ML is refusing to make the change as it is admitting it is the right thing to do regardless of the cost as well rubbing Brampton face in the dirt for turning the plan line down.

I have raise this issue more times than enough since the start of construction and have gotten the same response.

Lets see the first lawsuit fly when someone gets injury or kill using the plan station location in place where it should be built. The cost will be more than $15 million when it gets move

Based on current work, the project is about 2 months behind schedule.

Solar panels on Moncton Bus Shelters I saw. Even Mississauga has a shelter at CCTT with panels as well seen others around for other systems.
51359909644_92788e8c2e_b.jpg
 
Last edited:
Last week walked to Dundas to have some X-ray's done and had a look along the route to see what was new. Other than Bell working at 3 different intersections north of Fairview, no change to the road until you hit CP overpass. Traffic was backup from Fairview to John St where it narrows from 3 lanes to one. Need to reduce it to 2 lanes starting at Hillcrest to stop the drivers trying to get as far as they can in the curb lane that cause the backup.

The west side walk is close from the bus stop as gas line work taking place on the south side of the overpass and the north access entrance to the GO Station is close off. They are working just south of the stairs close off since construction started on the station. A trench has been dug from this location to John St.

The southbound lanes has new markings on the road starting at Dundas going north.

Heading north, traffic was still backup south of John St and this was only 3 pm.

As I near the mid block bus stop, I had to laugh at the sign posted for it as it was an HOV sign. Give the driver a inch and they will take a mile to the point drivers would use the space to line jump. What a waste.

As I hit Fairview, crew off loading fence material and placing it on the west sidewalk. Decide to walk to Elm and do some photographing of the Edge towers than walk the same route home that I use earlier. All kind of water line and material for it store at Central Parkway on the northside and it wasn't there on Monday.

Today walked to Square One and shoot 2 sites on the way. Noticed the construction lights where working for Burnhamthrope and would have a closer look on my way back. All the median is now 100% removed and pave as well 3 of the 4 corner island. It looks like they were doing this work today and still have to do the other corner on Friday. Could see construction was underway at Elm with dirt pile up, but not on my route home to get a closer look.
 
^ Yes, but I've you may have seen/read from earlier posts, the recent Council motion also said that 30% design work for the surface option could continue, in addition to their voted opinion that the tunnel is preferred and it to will get the 30% design treatment. A TPAP will be done in the future on one option.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top