News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
A Message to Our Readers
 11K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
EarthCam Time-Lapse Documents Rafael Viñoly-Designed New Stanford Hospital Construction
 43K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
Resort Town
 6.7K     0 
Richard White said:
You really need to stop comparing us to China.

The fact is there are alot of different reasons why China builds things faster from lax labour standards to cheaper materials.

Canada and specifically Ontario have much higher standards, restrictive policies and very strict building codes. You couldn't do half the stuff you do in China and not get yourself sued a million ways from Sunday.
Click to expand...
I understand this.. but it's really frustrating that it takes THIS long just to build a project like this. On top of this, our costs seem to balloon everytime transit is built here in the city and makes me wonder if we could possibly outsource our construction companies or something because it's getting out of hand.
 
The REAL said:
I understand this.. but it's really frustrating that it takes THIS long just to build a project like this. On top of this, our costs seem to balloon everytime transit is built here in the city and makes me wonder if we could possibly outsource our construction companies or something because it's getting out of hand.
Click to expand...
How would outsourcing construction companies reduce the cost? We can't do what we did when we built the railroad anymore and just hier Chinese and Irish people to do it cheaply anymore.
 
The REAL said:
I understand this.. but it's really frustrating that it takes THIS long just to build a project like this. On top of this, our costs seem to balloon everytime transit is built here in the city and makes me wonder if we could possibly outsource our construction companies or something because it's getting out of hand.
Click to expand...

The reasons why this project is taking so long are pretty clear and were all design features that were baked in at the beginning.
a) It’s deep
b) There are a couple of serious engineering challenges thanks to having to underpin Line 1 crossings without interrupting Line 1 service
c) The fire, accessibility, telecom, power supply, and control specs exceed what was ever required before - this is not your Dad’s 1966 model subway
d) It’s a “system” build (as opposed to incrementally adding new station on the end of an existing line to match a previously proven design standard)

One can certainly ask why we threw in all the bells and whistles, but once we did that, it wasn’t going to be cheap or easy. And most of those bells and whistles are good things that we would demand in any new line. Standards have legitimately risen since previous projects.

In the end, the execution has been pretty effective and (as big projects go) pretty close to cost projection. Compared to TYSSE - no fatalities, no major subcontractor defaults, no lengthy work stoppages due to bad design (the York Library fiasco).

The benchmark for comparison ought to be - what would the long term cost of building this system be, versus having built the previous design (the one Harris cancelled) and then iteratively brought it to the same standard. It might have been built cheaper and faster as a 1990s standard subway, but we would already be retrofitting things (ATC, cellular, fire, accessibility upgrades) as is being done across the rest of the subway system. I’m not sure that is any cheaper in the long term and has its own disruption cost.

I continue to question the general wisdom of TBM as opposed to cut and cover. That may be moot for the Ontario line which has to go underneath the downtown, but perhaps doesn’t need to be tunnelled end to end. When we get going on the Ontario Line construction, Crosstown is going to seem like the good old days.

- Paul
 
Last edited:
crs1026 said:
Compared to TYSSE - no fatalities, no major subcontractor defaults, no lengthy work stoppages due to bad design (the York Library fiasco).
Click to expand...

The fatality at York University station was due to bad luck or human error not likely laxer safety standards. If there were multiple fatalities then maybe.
 
crs1026 said:
The reasons why this project is taking so long are pretty clear and were all design features that were baked in at the beginning.
a) It’s deep
b) There are a couple of serious engineering challenges thanks to having to underpin Line 1 crossings without interrupting Line 1 service
c) The fire, accessibility, telecom, power supply, and control specs exceed what was ever required before - this is not your Dad’s 1966 model subway
d) It’s a “system” build (as opposed to incrementally adding new station on the end of an existing line to match a previously proven design standard)

One can certainly ask why we threw in all the bells and whistles, but once we did that, it wasn’t going to be cheap or easy. And most of those bells and whistles are good things that we would demand in any new line. Standards have legitimately risen since previous projects.

In the end, the execution has been pretty effective and (as big projects go) pretty close to cost projection. Compared to TYSSE - no fatalities, no major subcontractor defaults, no lengthy work stoppages due to bad design (the York Library fiasco).

The benchmark for comparison ought to be - what would the long term cost of building this system be, versus having built the previous design (the one Harris cancelled) and then iteratively brought it to the same standard. It might have been built cheaper and faster as a 1990s standard subway, but we would already be retrofitting things (ATC, cellular, fire, accessibility upgrades) as is being done across the rest of the subway system. I’m not sure that is any cheaper in the long term and has its own disruption cost.

I continue to question the general wisdom of TBM as opposed to cut and cover. That may be moot for the Ontario line which has to go underneath the downtown, but perhaps doesn’t need to be tunnelled end to end. When we get going on the Ontario Line construction, Crosstown is going to seem like the good old days.

- Paul
Click to expand...
Honestly the biggest issue was B as the original site service underestimated the issues. Obviously there was a lot of guessing involved, but overall, for whatever reason, the original excavation and shoring design was insufficient when they dug in.
We can point fingers at whose fault it was once the project is complete, but how much more quickly they couldve worked to address it, Im not sure.
 
Voltz said:
I also want to know what snow removal vehicles they will have for the line.
Click to expand...
I doubt that they have any. Maybe just a single snow-blower to clean out the yard accesses and that short section of elevated mainline.

In normal-ish circumstances, the service would be running frequent enough to prevent the snowfall accumulation from seriously impeding the cars. And overnight, they would also run a couple of trains operated by overtime staff to run back-and-forth on the exposed sections of the line (The TTC already does this today.)

Of all of the modes of transit that the TTC operates, the one that was affected least by the weather yesterday were the streetcars.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
Of all of the modes of transit that the TTC operates, the one that was affected least by the weather yesterday were the streetcars.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. While I did see a bunch of stuck buses and witnessed no service of any kind into Warden Station I was still stuck on streetcars along Harbourfront. There was a 1 hour wait for streetcars at Spadina Station yesterday morning.

There were 4 streetcars stuck at Spadina and Queens Quay at 9 am in the morning. When I say stuck I mean I got out between stops and walked.
 
Richard White said:
Yes and no. While I did see a bunch of stuck buses and witnessed no service of any kind into Warden Station I was still stuck on streetcars along Harbourfront. There was a 1 hour wait for streetcars at Spadina Station yesterday morning.

There were 4 streetcars stuck at Spadina and Queens Quay at 9 am in the morning. When I say stuck I mean I got out between stops and walked.
Click to expand...
Most of the stuck buses were stuck because they simply were not able to move with the snow build-up.

With the exception of a derailed streetcar at King and Spadina, the streetcars were held up by other vehicles blocking their ways. Once the obstruction was moved, they were able to continue on their way.

As a further example, the number of streetcars left in a location that wasn't the yard was in the single digits last night. One division alone had over 60 buses scattered on the streets overnight.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
Most of the stuck buses were stuck because they simply were not able to move with the snow build-up.

With the exception of a derailed streetcar at King and Spadina, the streetcars were held up by other vehicles blocking their ways. Once the obstruction was moved, they were able to continue on their way.

As a further example, the number of streetcars left in a location that wasn't the yard was in the single digits last night. One division alone had over 60 buses scattered on the streets overnight.

Dan
Click to expand...
The usual problem happening with streetcars are the selfish motorists who don't look to see if they are blocking someone else. Likely be the same people who take up two parking slots in parking lots, park in front of a fire hydrant, or park in a "no parking" zone.

king_blockage.jpg
From link.
 
W. K. Lis said:
The usual problem happening with streetcars are the selfish motorists who don't look to see if they are blocking someone else. Likely be the same people who take up two parking slots in parking lots, park in front of a fire hydrant, or park in a "no parking" zone.

king_blockage.jpg
From link.
Click to expand...

Years ago, my fathers friend drove streetcars. He was doing the 506 Carlton along Gerrard near the beaches. He was stopped by a line of illegally parked cars which were parked in a live lane beside a snowbank.

TPS was called to tow the cars but because there was a line up of streetcars behind him, he was told to go ahead by TPS. He took the mirror off every car going down the street and pushed a few out of the way but the streetcars got through. This was the early 1990s though, no way that would be done now.
 
I noticed some streetcars getting stuck in the snow yesterday. I don't recall this happening with the CLRV's in the past, even during an event like this. Ice on the overhead, yes, but not snow.

Is the low floor nature of the new streetcars preventing them from navigating through snow as easily as the older ones?
 
W. K. Lis said:
The NIMBYs did not want to be bypassed, but failed to recognize that a south side stop was preferable. They just wanted a stop, period. They didn't include where to place the stop.
Click to expand...
Let's put the blame where it belongs. Not building a south side stop was a (horrible) Metrolinx decision.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top