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Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

That's right. Also, I could not believe how quick and easy it was to change my address online and within days, my new driver's licence and health card was in the mailbox. That's certainly one thing the province got right.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

The government better hope that a lot of people lose their birth certificates between now and the next election, since there certainly isn't much media coverage of the new improved system.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

Does anyone really believe northern Ontario will be so much better off with Manitoba?

Threatening to separate has become a political tradition in this country.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

Yes, but telling separatists "g'wan, fugoff then if you think it's so much better" is a tradition that should be started - if only to scare the other separatists.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

They should check to see if anyone in Manitoba wants them.
 
A new province called Mantario?

Separating from Ontario and forming our own province is not out of the question. Cape Breton is already talking about separating from Nova Scotia. Since all provinces have regions that feel ignored we need is some kind of
regional revolution so that the regions are protected under the law and can no longer be ignored.

BongoBob


From: www.theglobeandmail.com/s...t/Ontario/
_____________________
A new province called Mantario?

JOHN IBBITSON

Has the time come to reverse the verdict of the Battle of Rat Portage? The most recent issue of Canadian Public Policy magazine contains an article by Livio Di Matteo and two other academics that explores the possibility of Northwestern Ontario leaving Ontario.

The question was supposedly settled in the 1880s. Back then, both Manitoba (supported by the federal government) and Ontario claimed the vast lands north and west of what is now Thunder Bay. Each government sent in its own officials and police, who promptly began arresting each other in the town of Rat Portage (wisely renamed Kenora). Fortunately, the "battle" never actually descended into violence, and the British were asked to adjudicate. They gave the land to Ontario, and the northwest has never been happy since.

With 60 per cent of Ontario's land, a Great Lakes port and forest and mineral wealth, Northwestern Ontario is, in theory, a valuable catch. But a mere 235,000 people live there; the region accounts for only 2 per cent of the provincial population. As many immigrants arrive in Ontario every two years as live in the entire northwest.

Ontario has always regarded its north as a colony, good for resource extraction and not much else. The people of the northwest (who refer to southern Ontario as "down east") rightly believe they have little influence at Queen's Park. There are repeated rumblings, and some odd character or other is always trying to get a secessionist movement going. Messrs. Di Matteo et al. decided to take a hard look at the political and economic case for change.

Their first scenario involves switching provinces. Northwestern Ontario could join Manitoba, creating a new province that the authors christen "Mantario." This would be good for Manitoba, which would gain a population boost (with an average income higher than the current Manitoba average), lumber and mineral resources, and a major port. Northwesterners, in exchange, would enjoy much greater representation in the Manitoba legislature (11 out of 68 seats) than they currently claim at Queen's Park (three out of 103), with the capital closer both in real terms and in outlook.

Economically, it would be a wash. Northwestern Ontario would lose the extensive subsidies provided by the Ontario government, but it would be joining a have-not province, which would lead to an increase in federal equalization payments -- largely paid for, of course, by those southern Ontario taxpayers.

Taxes are higher in Manitoba, but the province spends more on government services. This would appeal to the northwest, which relies heavily on subsidies. Politically and economically, the authors conclude, Northwestern Ontario would have as much to gain as it would to lose by becoming part of the Prairies.

The authors also contemplate the possibility of turning Northwestern Ontario into its own province. Such a province would be small, poor and utterly dependent on federal grants -- typical, in other words. The most practical scenario would see Queen's Park devolving partial authority to an elected regional council.

The biggest obstacle to reform might be simple apathy. "The demand for a new province does not enjoy support beyond the level of coffee-table discussion," the authors note. "This choice may be analogous to one between remaining in Ontario's attic, becoming Manitoba's basement or simply moving out into your own place. In the absence of any motivating regional ambition, the choice may simply be to remain in the attic."

Straw man raised, straw man knocked down. Except for one thing. Northern Ontario, the B.C. Interior, Manitoba outside Winnipeg, Quebec outside Montreal and Quebec City, and almost all of Atlantic Canada are on the outside, watching a modern, urban, multiethnic Canada recede ever further from their experience. Their populations dwindle, their influence dissipates, their legislatures increasingly ignore them.

In the coming decades, accommodating the hinterlands to the reality of urban Canada will test the bonds of the federation. Some day, Mantario may not sound so foolish after all.
 
mantario? will its capital be thundergay? :p ;)
 
I think there's a lot of merit in the idea of splitting up Ontario. Although Quebec may be larger in raw terms, if you think instead in terms of human geography (land doesn't vote!) the settled area of Ontario is much, much larger.

There's also a pretty clear divide in terms of landscape and economy.

But since N. Ontario "constitutes 87% of the land area of Ontario, although it contains less than 7% of the population", it is clear that the region is overwhelmed by southern Ontario. But it could still potentially be a tough place to govern. In reality, how much does a person in North Bay have in common with someone in Kenora?
 
Whether northern Ontario would split off by itself or join Manitoba, it would still be a have-not entity.
 
But since N. Ontario "constitutes 87% of the land area of Ontario, although it contains less than 7% of the population", it is clear that the region is overwhelmed by southern Ontario. But it could still potentially be a tough place to govern. In reality, how much does a person in North Bay have in common with someone in Kenora?

Especially as North Bay and area seems to have more in common with "near north" regions like Haliburton, Renfrew and Parry Sound Counties/Districts than even Sudbury. Sudbury is 40% Francophone (though nearly all speak English), a mining town with NDP-leanings. North Bay has Conservative leanings and does not have mines, paper mills, or many of the trappings of real northern cities and towns.

Determining what's the "natural" break-point of northern Ontario is tough, but I would go with Algoma District as the dividing line still more tied to the south. Also, east of Lake Superior, there's the Franco-Ontarien community, that ends by the time you get to the Sault. I also look at Ontario Northland, whose service area is from Union Station/bus terminal out to Timmins and Hearst. One example of the closer connections to the south than say Kenora or TB.

It's the distance posed by Lake Superior that does it. Kenora, Thunder Bay and Rainy River Districts feel more different than Cochrane, Sudbury, Timiskiming and even Algoma. Nipissing really is alligned closest to Renfrew/Haliburton/Parry Sound/Muskoka.
 
The very first live gay tv show in the world happened out of Thunder Bay in the late 1980s. It was called "Thunder Gay Magazine" and aired Thursday nights before The Cosby Show on Maclean Hunter Cable 7 TV. Fact.

damn! homosexuals are always stealing my plays on words, going back in time and making it look like they came up with the idea. there can be no other explanation!
 
Especially as North Bay and area seems to have more in common with "near north" regions like Haliburton, Renfrew and Parry Sound Counties/Districts than even Sudbury. Sudbury is 40% Francophone (though nearly all speak English), a mining town with NDP-leanings. North Bay has Conservative leanings and does not have mines, paper mills, or many of the trappings of real northern cities and towns.

Determining what's the "natural" break-point of northern Ontario is tough, but I would go with Algoma District as the dividing line still more tied to the south. Also, east of Lake Superior, there's the Franco-Ontarien community, that ends by the time you get to the Sault. I also look at Ontario Northland, whose service area is from Union Station/bus terminal out to Timmins and Hearst. One example of the closer connections to the south than say Kenora or TB.

It's the distance posed by Lake Superior that does it. Kenora, Thunder Bay and Rainy River Districts feel more different than Cochrane, Sudbury, Timiskiming and even Algoma. Nipissing really is alligned closest to Renfrew/Haliburton/Parry Sound/Muskoka.

Couldn't we potentially end up with a north-south split within northern Ontario? So much of the population in the north is concentrated in the southeast along the Hwy 17 and Hwy 11 corridors. Thunder Bay may be in the northwest, but being a large city it likely shares more in common with Sudbury and the Soo than it does with Kenora or Fort Frances.

So we'll hear about how the Northern Northerners complaints are ignored by the Southern Northerners?
 
I thought Northern Ontario started north of Sheppard Ave.

(Attitudes like mine are the reason they hate us down east)

Seriously, I taken many visits to Kenora over the years and spent time with some great people. There have little in common with Southern Ontario and so much in common with Manitoba. It is not a horrible idea but it is and never will be a legitimate reason to spend tax payers money to rejig the federation (unless there is a complete overhaul).
 

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