[Richard White]

Most adults in the developed world outside of the USA/Canada rent. My friend is a surgeon in Germany and says he'll never own a home, but that no one does except for the wealthy landowner class. Not being able to buy a home is no excuse for failure to launch. When I got my first job in 1996 I immediately moved out into a basement apartment on the Danforth that took more than 50% of my monthly income - but dammit, I was out.

Honestly, I make 80000 a year managing Condos in Toronto. Safely, I bring home around 4200 a month after taxes.

If I was to get a 1 bedroom place on my own it would be stupidly tight. I would need to choose between eating or having utilities. It is doable but razor thin margins in this economy are a bad idea.

 

[evandyk]

Most adults in the developed world outside of the USA/Canada rent. My friend is a surgeon in Germany and says he'll never own a home, but that no one does except for the wealthy landowner class. Not being able to buy a home is no excuse for failure to launch. When I got my first job in 1996 I immediately moved out into a basement apartment on the Danforth that took more than 50% of my monthly income - but dammit, I was out.

An assortment of developed or high developing countries with home ownership rates higher than the US and Canada:

• Romania
• Hungary
• Croatia
• Lithuania
• Singapore
• Poland
• Taiwan
• Estonia
• Malta
• Norway
• Mexico
• Czech Republic
• Portgual
• Spain
• Italy
• Greece
• Belgium
• Luxembourg
• Ireland
• Finland

Germany is actually a relative outlier. The UK and France are both pretty close to the US and Canada (mid 60%s). The EU as a whole has a higher home ownership rate than either the US or Canada.

 

[Richard White]

An assortment of developed or high developing countries with home ownership rates higher than the US and Canada:

• Romania
• Hungary
• Croatia
• Lithuania
• Singapore
• Poland
• Taiwan
• Estonia
• Malta
• Norway
• Mexico
• Czech Republic
• Portgual
• Spain
• Italy
• Greece
• Belgium
• Luxembourg
• Ireland
• Finland

Germany is actually a relative outlier. The UK and France are both pretty close to the US and Canada (mid 60%s). The EU as a whole has a higher home ownership rate than either the US or Canada.

My 23 year old Cousin in Hungary just bought her first house, albeit in a mainly rural area 30 minutes outside of Budapest.

It is very common there for people in their 20s to afford homes because while their currency is worth almost nothing the cost of living is more balanced. Home prices have gone up since joining the EU but everything else has been kept in check.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Taking out the outliers, I am curious as to how many of the countries actually have growing populations and the urban (particularly primary cities) and rural split.

AoD

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

An assortment of developed or high developing countries with home ownership rates higher than the US and Canada:

It is slightly misleading though that most of the post-socialist countries on that list had privatized homes to families upon the transition to free market. Naturally home ownership is quite high, but it is not a straightforward parallel to Canada.

 

[Richard White]

Taking out the outliers, I am curious as to how many of the countries actually have growing populations and the urban (particularly primary cities) and rural split.

AoD

While I cannot speak to the others, Hungary is working on growing their population via tax breaks for persons having children. The more kids you have, the less taxes you pay with a maximum of 0% income tax being paid. They also give payouts to mothers for their kids among other benefits as seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_policy_in_Hungary

More often that not, these new families move outside the capital to currently rural areas like Erd, Tarnok, Ercsi, etc that are cheaper but rapidly being brought up to Urban standards.

They are springing up dandelions over there with almost every woman of child bearing age having kids.

 

[Northern Light]

Most adults in the developed world outside of the USA/Canada rent. My friend is a surgeon in Germany and says he'll never own a home, but that no one does except for the wealthy landowner class. Not being able to buy a home is no excuse for failure to launch. When I got my first job in 1996 I immediately moved out into a basement apartment on the Danforth that took more than 50% of my monthly income - but dammit, I was out.

As @Richard White points out above.... the cost of rent in Toronto vs even median income, never mind low/entry-level income is a real challenge.

I'm in a decent middle-income type apartment complex; not luxury. No ensuite laundry, no dishwashers, no central A/C. Want a unit in my building.....?

A 1 bedroom will set you back $2,500 per month, + electricity ($70 off-season, $150 in summer for window/portable a/c), + parking

So allow for $2,700 a month.

Even if you said spending up to 50% of your income was reasonable, that would be $5,400 a month or $64,800 in required income, assuming you meant from pre-tax earnings.

If you meant from post-tax earnings your gross would have to be over 80k.

Remember, full-time, minimum wage is $35,776 before taxes.

Yes, a lot of starting jobs pay better, but go look online and you'll see a lot of jobs at below $24 per hour including security, office cleaner, line cook, factory worker (food processing especially) and lots of retail.

The above earnings suggest an hourly pay rate of $33 per hour, or greater is required, IF you're willing to take the 50% on housing.

 

[evandyk]

It is slightly misleading though that most of the post-socialist countries on that list had privatized homes to families upon the transition to free market. Naturally home ownership is quite high, but it is not a straightforward parallel to Canada.

My dad actually worked in all of the Baltic states on this process. That's certainly why those countries are clustered at the top, but there are plenty of western Europe states where home ownership is higher than or basically the same as US/Canada.

 

[T3G]

There's lots of other pieces to the puzzle, too. I studied journalism 10 years ago but have never been able to find work in the industry, I've only ever been hired at crummy retail jobs that absolutely do not pay enough gh to survive. Now I'm going to go back to university in September for another 4 years in the hopes that a different degree will be able to turn my fortunes around. If my parents were spiteful, pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps people, they'd be able to upend my life pretty completely.

And it's not just a young person thing. My mom studied psychology in Czechoslovakia but Canada doesn't recognize her degree, so so the options open to her, who also had to raise 3 kids, are retail jobs and nothing else. If my dad didn't have a good job, there's a good chance we would've made up part of the population of those homeless encampments this forum wants to see levelled all the time.

But yes, let's hear all about how we just don't have enough drive and ambition.

 

[Richard White]

And it's not just a young person thing. My mom studied psychology in Czechoslovakia but Canada doesn't recognize her degree, so so the options open to her, who also had to raise 3 kids, are retail jobs and nothing else. If my dad didn't have a good job, there's a good chance we would've made up part of the population of those homeless encampments this forum wants to see levelled all the time.

My ex was like that.

She went to university in Mexico for Business and HR but Canada did not recognize the credentials she had. She ended up working as an office building cleaner to make ends meet.

 

[Admiral Beez]

As @Richard White points out above.... the cost of rent in Toronto vs even median income, never mind low/entry-level income is a real challenge.

Yes, but that applies to both genders. The cost of housing can't be why our young men are swinging right.

 

[Northern Light]

Yes, but that applies to both genders. The cost of housing can't be why our young men are swinging right.

Certainly not exclusively.

However, while people of both sexes and all education levels are facing challenges, these challenges are more acute for those lacking university education.

When we look at enrollment in Canadian universities, by sex.........we see a pronounced skew:

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics...condary-students-in-canada-by-age-and-gender/

Roughly 55% to 45%

That's an important first part of the equation, because we see the skew to the right is very much linked to education level.

****

Another important factor is social media. Its propensity for echo-chamber feeds tends to reinforce pre-existing views/leanings. So if more men view Joe Rogan, and you report as male, Rogan is more likely to come up in your feed.

Women don't tend to view Andrew Tate or Joe Rogan as much, they get different reinforcement in their social streams.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Although I didn't fully watch the French debate tonight, I watched enough of it to get a sense of what happened, using translations through the dubbed English version. I would say the leader of the Bloc Quebecois, Yves Francois Blanchet, won the debate overall and especially in terms who best spoke French, but he came across as quite aggressive at times. Pierre Poilievre did decently, but, his physical mannerisms and some of his comments will be a turn off to some, in particular, women voters. His French isn't as great as many hyped him up to be. Mark Carney's French was not good, and you could tell he intentionally tried to speak as little as possible at the debate, but you can tell it has improved a bit in the time since the Liberal leadership debate in February, and although all the other party leaders tried to throw a whole lot of stuff at him, no one was able to land a knock out blow on him, so you could argue it was a bit of a moral victory for him.... Jagmeet Singh was the clear loser of the debate, at one point, he tried to interrupt the moderate quite rudely in attempt to talk about healthcare, when the subject was about Canadian/Quebec identity. He also kept trying to just talk about healthcare when other subjects were being discussed, which made him come across as a bit confused, clumsy and not keeping up with the crowd.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

^The one who is trying to improve would be the winner for me.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Jagmeet Singh was the clear loser of the debate, at one point, he tried to interrupt the moderate quite rudely in attempt to talk about healthcare, when the subject was about Canadian/Quebec identity. He also kept trying to just talk about healthcare when other subjects were being discussed, which made him come across as a bit confused, clumsy and not keeping up with the crowd.

My hope is this is the moment the NDP go the way of the British Liberal party. In the FPTP setup, a two party system can best reflect the will of the people.