[thommyjo]

The quality won’t be that bad; the design could be better. It’s adequate for the type of housing it will offer. Easy to dwell on the what ifs - this will still be a net benefit to downtown and the area. Arguing otherwise just means you care about looks more than actually bringing people into the core.

“Care more about looks” isn’t a shallow thing when it comes to architecture and our urban realm. This isn’t some 16 year old buying their first car and complaining they can only afford a beater.

This is long term city building, in the heart of our city, in a winter city, in a place known for poor design standards….we simply can’t keep allowing this. By your logic, why make the effort to make anything look nice?

Good architecture INCREASES the number of people that want to live in and visit the core. It’s not like design doesn’t matter to liveability and long term attraction of residents.

 

[The_Cat]

I can’t understand it. With Wihkwentowin/Oliver building nicer buildings, why does downtown settle for less?

 

[northlands]

Are there grant dollars allocated to this project?

 

[archited]

why does downtown settle for less?

I don't think "downtown" does... it has more to do with a slate of crap developers who consistently get away with what they can get away with.

 

[Kosy123]

Are there grant dollars allocated to this project?

I think earlier in the thread, Avenuer or someone else mentioned they purposely didn't go for any grants since there would've been standards they had to abide by if they did.

 

[northlands]

I think earlier in the thread, Avenuer or someone else mentioned they purposely didn't go for any grants since there would've been standards they had to abide by if they did.

Well, at least we can all rest happily knowing we didn't have to subsidize this.

I'd prefer a far better design, but I do like materials (from what I can tell, at least) and looking forward how confident are we in seeing anything else be built here anytime soon? Healy Ford closed 15 years ago and this site has been a derelict stain on downtown ever since. As one of the poor suckers who actually lives downtown, I'd rather walk by this unimpressive build that actually has students and life vs another 15+ years of urban decay (or however long it takes for squatters to fully burn the place down). Fortunately/unfortunately, Edmonton's downtown is massive with a land glut that means we can crowd out the uglies should the market ever bear the ability to build high quality vertical structures.

We have to be at least somewhat realistic here. Edmonton just experienced probably the largest five year population growth boom since the 70s and yet it doesn't appear even 1% of that growth ended up downtown. If gov't subsidies like MLI select financing for PBR and the various CoE grant programs didn't exist, I'm not even fully confident that ANY project would have moved ahead in downtown proper since COVID.

 

[inclusion]

I understand the sentiment, and I agree in the end that providing bunch of new student housing Downtown (that is relatively affordable, hopefully) is a net positive. With that said, the design of this project is so utterly devoid of taste, style and class and is not acceptable for a prominent Downtown area. I also agree that Edmonton does need to up its standards at this point, however that will be an uphill battle given a) Policy direction which prioritizes quantity over quality of new housing (for good reasons, but still) and b) Edmonton's relatively cheap real estate market compounding with high construction costs and an isolated city location to prevent higher-quality architecture from penciling out for projects.

I wish there was a justifiable way for the City's development planners to actually enforce some basic good architectural design features for key locations in the city, e.g. window coverage, exterior colour palette, massing, street interaction and permeability.

It just sets a really bad precedent. If this gets built in its current incarnation, it signals to other builders what they can get away with on future projects.

No offence, but the precedent for "crap" in Edmonton was set decades ago. As for whether it's acceptable for a downtown, I'd argue that our countless blocks of unpaved parking lots aren't acceptable for a downtown area, yet here we are. Compared to some of the Regency stuff, this really isn't that terrible. I understand people have a problem with small windows, but it is standard on a lot of student housing across the country because of the size of units. People defend Mercury Block and the Cobalt here like they are architectural marvels, when really they are just bland boxes that have brought additional residents to the area where they were built. I'm not saying these are the peak of design; they are not, but the hypocritical irony around here is astounding. You have certain individuals bashing Westrich in one thread and praising similar developers in another thread. Compared with the other 6 floor projects being proposed elsewhere, the material used in this development is comparable.

 

[David A]

I understand the sentiment, and I agree in the end that providing bunch of new student housing Downtown (that is relatively affordable, hopefully) is a net positive. With that said, the design of this project is so utterly devoid of taste, style and class and is not acceptable for a prominent Downtown area. I also agree that Edmonton does need to up its standards at this point, however that will be an uphill battle given a) Policy direction which prioritizes quantity over quality of new housing (for good reasons, but still) and b) Edmonton's relatively cheap real estate market compounding with high construction costs and an isolated city location to prevent higher-quality architecture from penciling out for projects.

I wish there was a justifiable way for the City's development planners to actually enforce some basic good architectural design features for key locations in the city, e.g. window coverage, exterior colour palette, massing, street interaction and permeability.

I realize it is easier to make excuses, but our city needs to stop with the mentality of accepting whatever is presented, like helpless little frightened children and stand up for ourselves, particularly when the crap is egregious.

If we don't we will just get more crap and it will be what we deserve.

 

[archited]

Again, all of the "forgivers" on this very site excuse the moves on the basis of "well at least there will be fewer surface parking stalls" or "the designs are not that bad", or "the economy doesn't currently allow for downtown-calibre design". I am going to start handing out BS awards (and I don't mean Bachelor of Science).

 

[MakeYEGGreatAgain]

Again, all of the "forgivers" on this very site excuse the moves on the basis of "well at least there will be fewer surface parking stalls" or "the designs are not that bad", or "the economy doesn't currently allow for downtown-calibre design". I am going to start handing out BS awards (and I don't mean Bachelor of Science).

Where are those investors that are willing to build downtown calibre design?

 

[David A]

Where are those investors that are willing to build downtown calibre design?

Just a couple blocks away

 

[Barnaby]

Again, all of the "forgivers" on this very site excuse the moves on the basis of "well at least there will be fewer surface parking stalls" or "the designs are not that bad", or "the economy doesn't currently allow for downtown-calibre design". I am going to start handing out BS awards (and I don't mean Bachelor of Science).

1,000 more people with eyes on the street, supporting the local grocery stores, visiting the park, checking out the galleries, riding the train, enjoying restaurants, walking to/from places instead of driving.

The architecture is crap, but the positive effects from this project are not trivial to those actually living in the area.

While I understand your perspective, I can't help but blame the current state of downtown on the "greatest" generation's need to destroy, rather than build cities. Tegler, Carnegie, Corona Hotel, CNR Station, Empire Theatre, Empire Block, The ERR. I could keep going.

It's easy to pick apart projects from behind a screen, but many of us have to live with the terrible consequences of urban renewal. I'm sick of looking at cracked asphalt and gravel lots.

 

[Glenco]

1,000 more people with eyes on the street, supporting the local grocery stores, visiting the park, checking out the galleries, riding the train, enjoying restaurants, walking to/from places instead of driving.

The architecture is crap, but the positive effects from this project are not trivial to those actually living in the area.

While I understand your perspective, I can't help but blame the current state of downtown on the "greatest" generation's need to destroy, rather than build cities. Tegler, Carnegie, Corona Hotel, CNR Station, Empire Theatre, Empire Block, The ERR. I could keep going.

It's easy to pick apart projects from behind a screen, but many of us have to live with the terrible consequences of urban renewal. I'm sick of looking at cracked asphalt and gravel lots.

Gentrification starts with artists and students then the young professionals. We have to start somewhere but this particular development is in my opinion beyond the pale.

 

[archited]

@Barnaby you have just talked yourself into my first BS award.

 

[Barnaby]

@archited a few more decades and I'll have caught up to you!