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- Thread starter kettal
- Start date
kEiThZ
Superstar
Why is it that many keep insisting that we take pride in beating out a city like Melbourne while we avoid talking about how we fair compared to smaller or similar sized cities in Europe or Asia?
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
^^ They always argue either "those countries have way more money than we do" or "they've had much more time to develop their transit systems"
kettal
Banned
Nobody else finds it strange the PTUA decided that of all cities in the world, Toronto is the one to aspire to?
Their description of the TTC might have a little bit fantasy element, though.
Their description of the TTC might have a little bit fantasy element, though.
nfitz
Superstar
Compare it to many other cities in North America, and around the world. Sure, there issues ... but find me another city in North America with such frequent service ... New York City might do well ... but they have issues as well; I've certainly had to wait 20-minutes for a scheduled subway at hours where Toronto runs every 6-minutes ... and they have similiar regional issues compared to Toronto ... the lack of transferability to subway lines operated by different agencies ... lack of regional express rail, etc.
Just check out subway frequencies in other cities ... and then look at bus frequencies!
Just check out subway frequencies in other cities ... and then look at bus frequencies!
kEiThZ
Superstar
What New York lacks in frequency they make up for with coverage. When Toronto has a dozen subway lines and still has 6 minute frequency, then we'll have something to brag about.
kEiThZ
Superstar
What frustrates me is that we keep comparing ourselves to North American cities and places like Melbourne. If you were a B student, would you compare yourself to the A student or the C student in the class?
nfitz
Superstar
... I was thinking more so about the other 100 or so major cities with Transit in North America ... but even in New York, if they run subways with 20-minute frequencies at midnight ... I hate to think what their bus frequencies are ... a dozen subway lines are great if your in Manhattan or Brooklyn... but not very useful if you want to go across cross the Bronx or get to LaGaurdia from the Bronx.
doady
Senior Member
New York City has worse frequencies than Toronto, but the system is very comprehensive. Toronto can't compare. New York City is the least car-dependent city in the US and Canada, by far. That's a fact. And that is a very impressive feat for an American city, especially if you consider how much more car-dependent the US is as a whole compared to Canada.
kettal
Banned
Melbourne is often at the top ranking quality of life surveys. Toronto is always below Melbourne. What makes you think we're so much better that we shouldn't compare?
Chuck
Senior Member
I would agree that the quality of Toronto's surface routes is stellar, but that's where it ends. No matter how often the subway may run in this city, Toronto is completely and inappropriately under served by subways and heavy rail. It is shameful that in a city of 5 million people, there are only 2 corridors (Yonge and Bloor) which offer reliable and quick transit.
I would trade 5 minute frequency in the late evening with 15 minute frequency throughout the night. I would trade 2 ridiculously over crowded subway lines for 8 moderately used lines. Subways neither have to run every 90 seconds during rush hour, nor operate at crush loads for several hours a day in order to be justified.
I would trade 5 minute frequency in the late evening with 15 minute frequency throughout the night. I would trade 2 ridiculously over crowded subway lines for 8 moderately used lines. Subways neither have to run every 90 seconds during rush hour, nor operate at crush loads for several hours a day in order to be justified.
kEiThZ
Superstar
There are many inputs into a quality of life measurement. I am willing to bet that in Melbourne's case transit is not what puts them up there. And unfortunately, we don't get points for weather.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
^^ Some would argue that we lose points for weather.
Many would argue that good car movement can equate to a good quality of life. It's true that cars let people be more independent than transit, and being able to do things more independently has shown to give a better quality of life. Quality of life doesn't say anything for commuting times or greenhouse gas contribution, so transit could be nonexistant, and as long as they had cheap taxis and good highways, they could have the highest quality of life in the world.
Many would argue that good car movement can equate to a good quality of life. It's true that cars let people be more independent than transit, and being able to do things more independently has shown to give a better quality of life. Quality of life doesn't say anything for commuting times or greenhouse gas contribution, so transit could be nonexistant, and as long as they had cheap taxis and good highways, they could have the highest quality of life in the world.
taal
Senior Member
It's all about our surface routes ... that would, by far, eclipse many cities. In terms of coverage, frequency, and bunching 
But the later comes with the previous unfortunately
Anyway it's true, and that's why cities aspire for similar coverage.
Does that mean we're the be all and end all no ...
Please, stop comparing to Asian cities ....... the cost of doings things is extremely difference, moreover, governments in such countries take pride in their cities.... in the extreme sense, where people elsewhere don't have food/water/.....
But the later comes with the previous unfortunately Anyway it's true, and that's why cities aspire for similar coverage.
Does that mean we're the be all and end all no ...
Please, stop comparing to Asian cities ....... the cost of doings things is extremely difference, moreover, governments in such countries take pride in their cities.... in the extreme sense, where people elsewhere don't have food/water/.....
Paleo
Active Member
Yeah, Toronto can't compare. New York has several times the population density of Toronto.