[gweed123]

Just out of curiosity, would Metrolinx be able to by-pass the will of Toronto if the road they were building the LRT on was a provincially-owned road? I know most of the provincial highways within Toronto have been downloaded (Highway 11 comes to mind), but just speaking hypothetically.

Because AFAIR, all of the Transit City lines are going to be provincially-owned, right?

 

[rbt]

Just out of curiosity, would Metrolinx be able to by-pass the will of Toronto if the road they were building the LRT on was a provincially-owned road? I know most of the provincial highways within Toronto have been downloaded (Highway 11 comes to mind), but just speaking hypothetically.

Because AFAIR, all of the Transit City lines are going to be provincially-owned, right?

The province can do anything it wants. If the city put up a fuss, they could simply eliminate the mayor and council positions and create a "Toronto" cabinet minister in charge of everything to do with the city. The city is entirely the creation of the province and governed entirely by the City of Toronto Act which can be changed in nearly any way with 3 readings and a vote.

Heck, the easy way would be to give Metrolinx the exact same power to muck with the official plan as the OMB has.

 

[rbt]

Just out of curiosity, would Metrolinx be able to by-pass the will of Toronto if the road they were building the LRT on was a provincially-owned road? I know most of the provincial highways within Toronto have been downloaded (Highway 11 comes to mind), but just speaking hypothetically.

Because AFAIR, all of the Transit City lines are going to be provincially-owned, right?

The province can do anything it wants. If the city put up a fuss, they could simply eliminate the mayor and council positions and create a "Toronto" cabinet minister in charge of everything to do with the city. The city is entirely the creation of the province and governed entirely by the City of Toronto Act which can be changed in nearly any way with 3 readings and a vote.

Heck, the easy way would be to give Metrolinx the exact same power to muck with the official plan as the OMB has.

 

[Rainforest]

The province can do anything it wants. If the city put up a fuss, they could simply eliminate the mayor and council positions and create a "Toronto" cabinet minister in charge of everything to do with the city. The city is entirely the creation of the province and governed entirely by the City of Toronto Act which can be changed in nearly any way with 3 readings and a vote.

Legally, yes.

In practice, which Ontario premier would take responsibility for such overhaul?

It would be both bad optics (curtailing the democracy) and bad political foresight (Toronto will manage to get itself into a mess anyway, but now that mess will be the provincial government's liability).

 

[nfitz]

In practice, which Ontario premier would take responsibility for such overhaul?

I wouldn't put it past future Premier Rob Ford

 

[gweed123]

The province can do anything it wants. If the city put up a fuss, they could simply eliminate the mayor and council positions and create a "Toronto" cabinet minister in charge of everything to do with the city. The city is entirely the creation of the province and governed entirely by the City of Toronto Act which can be changed in nearly any way with 3 readings and a vote.

Heck, the easy way would be to give Metrolinx the exact same power to muck with the official plan as the OMB has.

This is what I suspected. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Ford took an "Eglinton? Over my dead body" approach. Metrolinx could request that Eglinton be uploaded as a Provincial highway (maintenance of the road would be a small price to pay). The ROW would then become Provincial property, and they could do whatever they wanted within it (and underneath it).

 

[Dan416]

This is what I suspected. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Ford took an "Eglinton? Over my dead body" approach. Metrolinx could request that Eglinton be uploaded as a Provincial highway (maintenance of the road would be a small price to pay). The ROW would then become Provincial property, and they could do whatever they wanted within it (and underneath it).

I think you're starting to drift off into Fantasyland...

 

[TransitPolicyChanger]

I think you're starting to drift off into Fantasyland...

I would agree, the Province does not own these streets, and has no control over them. Good luck trying to upload any of the proposed streets which have been planned to receive new transit lines, and even better luck trying to build anything without the City's consent. Until Ford sees the light (at least for the original proposed underground section of Eglinton) we are stuck.

 

[DavidH]

I would agree, the Province does not own these streets, and has no control over them. Good luck trying to upload any of the proposed streets which have been planned to receive new transit lines, and even better luck trying to build anything without the City's consent. Until Ford sees the light (at least for the original proposed underground section of Eglinton) we are stuck.

While I don't think there is ANY chance of Eglinton getting uploaded, it's surely within the broad powers that the Province has over the City to forcibly do so.

Politically, of course, it would be a disaster for the government of the day to do so.

 

[Electrify]

I think I suggested the possibility of an upload elsewhere on these boards. But would such a measure turn Eglinton (or possibly even Sheppard) into a GO line rather than a TTC one?

 

[DavidH]

I think I suggested the possibility of an upload elsewhere on these boards. But would such a measure turn Eglinton (or possibly even Sheppard) into a GO line rather than a TTC one?

No, it would turn Eglinton into another operating division of Metrolinx, with its own President.

 

[Dan416]

While I don't think there is ANY chance of Eglinton getting uploaded, it's surely within the broad powers that the Province has over the City to forcibly do so.

Politically, of course, it would be a disaster for the government of the day to do so.

I don't think anyone is denying that the province has the power to do such a thing. The province can amalgamate cities on a whim.

I think the province knows it would be political suicide to try such a thing. And really, they have no desire or want to anyway, so why would they?

 

[gweed123]

I don't think anyone is denying that the province has the power to do such a thing. The province can amalgamate cities on a whim.

I think the province knows it would be political suicide to try such a thing. And really, they have no desire or want to anyway, so why would they?

I was just curious if it was possible. I wasn't trying to insinuate that it was practical in the least.

 

[drum118]

I was just curious if it was possible. I wasn't trying to insinuate that it was practical in the least.

If this was not an election year and if there was an extra 2 years before one, the province would told where Ford could go and start building any of TC lines over the objection of the city and Ford.

There is always a price to pay at the end of the day for a move like this and you must weigh the the pros and cons for making that move in the first place.

 

[Rainforest]

If this was not an election year and if there was an extra 2 years before one, the province would told where Ford could go and start building any of TC lines over the objection of the city and Ford.

Even with no elections looming, in doing so the provincial government would have to overcome many logistic difficulties, without much political capital earned. Normally, the city's departments handle associated tasks such as property acquisitions, utility relocations, landscaping, rezoning etc. If the province decided to go alone, it would have to create its own departments for those tasks, or direct the city's departments ... too tedious.

It would be a lot easier for the province to just reallocate the transit funding to local projects in other cities, and GO expansion / electrification.