[sixrings]

Heh. They worded the question very well to suit their bias. Factually correct though.

However, the really interesting part was that of those who dislike Ford, 42% still want it built underground. Furthermore, it was really the central Toronto group who were more inclined to have Scarborough at grade, which makes sense because in reality they don't care, as they already have their central portion underground.

All sorts of people HATE Rob Ford but LOVE subways.

 

[Eug]

Even if the majority wants something they're most likely not informed about technicalities and think in black and white terms where it's either a subway or a bus.

That's not the point. The point is the left on council tried to out-maneuver the right (which is the right's own fault because they delayed everything for so long), but then the right reacted lightning fast and out-maneuvered the left in some ways.

The battle ain't over yet, but meanwhile Stintz comes out of this looking like a complete has-been and a total amateur, whereas she was trying to become the next mayor.

 

[Tulse]

'Do you think that the Scarborough section of the Eglinton light rail transit line should be built above ground in its own right of way in the middle of the road like the St. Clair streetcar, or should it be built below ground like a subway? If it was built above-ground, Eglinton Avenue would be reduced to four lanes in order to accommodate the transit line right of way.'

'And if was built below ground, it would cost billions more and prevent expansion of transit on Finch and Sheppard.' That would have been the honest way to frame it.

Again they used "like the St. Clair streetcar".
It wouldn't be anything like the St. Clair streetcar!

St. Clair doesn't even have a "streetcar" -- it has an LRT.

And now that construction is finished, it's a great addition. And the construction issues experienced on St. Clair won't impact the wider and less pedestrianized Eglinton east.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Eug:

I don't know about the out-maneuvered part - the status quo has now turned into a definitive confrontation necessitated by the council vote, and the battleground isn't as friendly as it would have been in 1 AF.

Tulse:

Actually, the choice of mentioning St. Clair is in itself interesting - consider the bad rep and media exposure it had.

AoD

 

[sixrings]

well I didnt like Stintz plan either... I hope we simply go back to Transit City with proper road spacing. If the TTC cant figure that out email me and I will be happy to take 10 minutes of time to figure out what they couldnt in the last 5 years.

 

[JoeParez]

St. Clair doesn't even have a "streetcar" -- it has an LRT.

And now that construction is finished, it's a great addition. And the construction issues experienced on St. Clair won't impact the wider and less pedestrianized Eglinton east.

I know what you mean Tulse - but in everyone's mind when the phrase "St. Clair Streetcar" is said, they don't think of the positive impact that it has on the community now (because no one talks about it - in the media/press/social situations it's all about negativity) they think of the "mess" during construction.

edit:

Clarified by AoD.

 

[Tulse]

the choice of mentioning St. Clair is in itself interesting - consider the bad rep and media exposure it had.

Yep, they could have just as easily said, "like the Spadina LRT", which is probably a more accurate comparison, given that Eglinton is closer in width to what Spadina was. I don't know of anyone who now complains about the Spadina LRT.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tulse:

I wouldn't use that comparator either - considering the really tight spacing of stops, which is nothing like the proposed section.

AoD

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

Far from it. After tonight, I'd lay odds on her being in the Mayor's chair in 2014. 3 to 1 against maybe, but she's in the running now.

She told the media she believed she had Doug Ford on board before she spoke. Sounds fishy to me though. I think she just decided to leave Ford Nation while the getting is good.

+1

 

[Tulse]

I wouldn't use that comparator either - considering the really tight spacing of stops, which is nothing like the proposed section.

True, but if one feels the need to point to an extant example, the Spadina LRT is closer to what Eglinton would be like than St. Clair.

I really find it interesting that, in all the talk about the virtues and vices of LRTs, no one seems to bring up either Spadina or Harbourfront, which are arguably extremely successful.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tulse:

Yeah but also rather slow and works more like a streetcar, particularly the former. Not useful for apples to apples comparison - unless you want to slant it in a certain way.

AoD

 

[Tulse]

Yeah but also rather slow and works more like a streetcar, particularly the former.

I completely agree, but in terms of existing systems that the respondents might be familiar with, Spadina is a far better comparison than St. Clair, even though it is still an inaccurate analogy.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think it would be far wiser to stay away from mode comparisons and focus on the tangibles - i.e. wait time, travel time and cost.

AoD

 

[JoeParez]

I think it would be far wiser to stay away from mode comparisons and focus on the tangibles - i.e. wait time, travel time and cost.

AoD

Certain Torontonians don't want tangibles though - it seems that anything that's different than what is already in Toronto seems weird and scary.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I suspect that's why the Wario brothers are so afraid of a proper study.

AoD