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Kennedy Station Design Update Meeting

From this link:

Metrolinx invites you to attend a meeting for information on the preliminary station and stop designs for the Eglinton Crosstown project. Specifically, the station design concept for the Crosstown Kennedy Station, including the mobility hub study, will be presented. As well, the surface stop design concepts and surface alignment from Bermondsey to Kennedy will be available for review.

Date:Wednesday, December 11, 2013
Time:6:30 p.m. – 9:00 p.m.
Location:SATEC at W.A. Porter
Collegiate Institute
40 Fairfax Crescent, Toronto
The meeting will be open house format with an opportunity to view displays and speak one-on-one with staff.
- See more at: http://www.thecrosstown.ca/news-med...on-design-update-meeting#sthash.tl9rzvnF.dpuf

If able to attend, each person should try and make mention about moving the Leslie stop to the south side of Eglinton, and cross-platform stations (rough-in) for the Don Mills interchange.
 
Demand along Don Mills itself would come nowhere close to justifying rapid transit. Based purely on local demand, some kind of express or rapid bus seems most appropriate.

The question though is how would Don Mills interact with the surface routes it intersects. All of the Don Mills LRT studies were done assuming a fairly local style LRT which didn't attract much transfer ridership, not an alternative to the Yonge subway.

That said, the line doesn't even have to be on Don Mills per se. If ridership is mostly transfering, it lets the route be more flexible since we don't have to go out of our way to hit certain destinations.

There are dozens of permutations of these, but I'd see three major corridor options which could originate from Don Mills/Eglinton.

1.) Don Mills/DVP: The line could run above ground along the DVP, swerving a bit to hit things like the Sheppard terminus or Seneca College. The only other semi-significant trip generator along this corridor would be Lawrence-Don Mills.

2.) Agincourt rail corridor. Especially if the DRL approached Leaside from the West, it should be possible to build a low cost extension along the rail corridor to Lawrence/VicPark-> Ellesmere/Warden -> Agincourt-> STC or Malvern or so. Or it could turn up the Stouffvile corridor after Agincourt.

3.) Richmond Hill rail corridor. The line could be upgraded and straitened and stations added where major roads intersect.

All of those corridors would intersect the same basic feeder routes to some extent. It would take pretty detailed modelling to figure out how and at what cost. In terms of cost, they should all be fairly low and comparable. Stations would be relatively infrequent and routes would be nearly 100% above ground.

Ideally we'd actually see the DRL branch into two somewhere around here.
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Base on what you have said, these are the three options (four? I made two scarborough alignments.) for the DRL. I think the Malvern idea would be popular.
 

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If able to attend, each person should try and make mention about moving the Leslie stop to the south side of Eglinton, and cross-platform stations (rough-in) for the Don Mills interchange.

Hmm. What if people at the meeting about Kennedy want to talk about Kennedy? The ship has probably sailed for better or worse on Leslie, and I suspect the idea of putting a whole lot of sharp bends in two different lines just so you can build a certain type of station ("tail wags dog") is deader than dead in the water.
 
Hmm. What if people at the meeting about Kennedy want to talk about Kennedy? The ship has probably sailed for better or worse on Leslie, and I suspect the idea of putting a whole lot of sharp bends in two different lines just so you can build a certain type of station ("tail wags dog") is deader than dead in the water.

Kennedy Station should still be the main topic at the next meeting. However, if asides or comments are made about Leslie and/or Don Mills, while talking about Kennedy, then the more repeats the better.
 
Kennedy Station Design Update Meeting

From this link:

If able to attend, each person should try and make mention about moving the Leslie stop to the south side of Eglinton, and cross-platform stations (rough-in) for the Don Mills interchange.


More relevant would be to raise the issue of elevating the line from Kennedy to Don Mills. The portal could move from west of Kennedy (in the median) to being elevated over Kennedy with portal on the SE side.

Of course you can raise the Leslie south side alignment since it is an obvious best alignment.

I do not support the cross platform transfer, but I would support roughing in a station at Don Mills. This station would be under the ECLRT station since the ECLRT would have to rise up quickly to become elevated over DVP. Of course Ferrand would (should) be eliminated.
 
More relevant would be to raise the issue of elevating the line from Kennedy to Don Mills. The portal could move from west of Kennedy (in the median) to being elevated over Kennedy with portal on the SE side.

Of course you can raise the Leslie south side alignment since it is an obvious best alignment.

I do not support the cross platform transfer, but I would support roughing in a station at Don Mills. This station would be under the ECLRT station since the ECLRT would have to rise up quickly to become elevated over DVP. Of course Ferrand would (should) be eliminated.

A light rail, like Eglinton, can handle curves and inclines better than heavy rail. So let the Eglinton Crosstown have the lower level and any extensive curves needed, IF Don Mills goes heavy rail.
 
A light rail, like Eglinton, can handle curves and inclines better than heavy rail. So let the Eglinton Crosstown have the lower level and any extensive curves needed, IF Don Mills goes heavy rail.

Light rail could run on a fully grade separated alignment and carry 2x as many people as non grade separated light rail.
 
Light rail could run on a fully grade separated alignment and carry 2x as many people as non grade separated light rail.

Don Mills would be an underground station straight under Eglinton Avenue East for the Eglinton Crosstown, in the plans. The plans have little or no provision for transfers to any further rapid transit line under Don Mills Road, at this time.
 
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Don Mills would be an underground station straight under Eglinton Avenue East for the Eglinton Crosstown, in the plans. The plans have little or no provision for transfers to any further rapid transit line under Don Mills Road, at this time.
And what if the DRL ends at Danforth and doesn't get extended to Eglinton for another few decades? Or ever?
 
And what if the DRL ends at Danforth and doesn't get extended to Eglinton for another few decades? Or ever?

If our ancestors could have built the Bloor Viaduct with provisions for a subway line that took several decades to come, then I don't see why Don Mills station can't be similarly planned with the future in mind.
 
If our ancestors could have built the Bloor Viaduct with provisions for a subway line that took several decades to come...

We used it for a subway but it was intended for commuter rail.

Also, we only used half of what was built. The other half, the Rosedale Valley portion which was also built at significant expense, remains unused.
 
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Kennedy Station Design Update Meeting

From this link:



If able to attend, each person should try and make mention about moving the Leslie stop to the south side of Eglinton, and cross-platform stations (rough-in) for the Don Mills interchange.

The other thing I wonder is how they can decide on a Kennedy LRT station when it is unknown where the Kennedy Subway Station will be. In fact, if they say the entire subway extension will undergo an EA and route optimization, they may even consider a route connected to an elevated Eglinton - but of course some decisions that they make now will probably preclude that option.
 
The other thing I wonder is how they can decide on a Kennedy LRT station when it is unknown where the Kennedy Subway Station will be. In fact, if they say the entire subway extension will undergo an EA and route optimization, they may even consider a route connected to an elevated Eglinton - but of course some decisions that they make now will probably preclude that option.

As much as many of on Urban Toronto have advocated for a elevated LRT on Eglinton I have yet to hear even one TORONTO politician suggest this (metrolinx may have, I cant remember with all the flip flopping). It is on no ones radar and now after making the decision to extend the Subway I am sure no one wants to reopen the debate... There is going to be enough of a debate with the DRL especially when the costs come in...
 
As much as many of on Urban Toronto have advocated for a elevated LRT on Eglinton I have yet to hear even one TORONTO politician suggest this (metrolinx may have, I cant remember with all the flip flopping). It is on no ones radar and now after making the decision to extend the Subway I am sure no one wants to reopen the debate... There is going to be enough of a debate with the DRL especially when the costs come in...

I have yet to hear a politician oppose the elevated option.

Even though the decision was made to extend the subway, I still have great doubts that it will be built. One side of Council (and the public) wants to reduce costs and use the LRT. The other side wants to extend the subway. If the balance of power changes slightly in the next election, it may be enough to cancel the entire subway idea and go back to LRT. I always thought that a compromise solution would be best to ensure that future delays are minimized.

The south side alignment at Leslie seemed like a reasonable solution and definitely was worth raising at a public meeting. I am not sure if it is important if it has been discussed by the public, or by politicians. This is an opportunity to ask the technical experts why certain aspects of the line were ignored. One would figure they could answer a simple question like that.

One of the best selling points for the DRL would be to show how a grade-separated rapid transit system along Eglinton would be connected to the DRL. Doing Eglinton right would actually help sell the public on the DRL.
 

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