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ehlow
Senior Member
The biggest opportunities for development along Eg are probably the areas full of big box stores with giant parking lots in Leaside & Scarborough's "Golden Mile".
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
From the TTC's website at this link:
9pm, Friday, March 7 to 4am, Monday, March 10 and
9pm, Friday, March 14 to 4am, Monday, March 17
Eglinton Avenue West at Dufferin Street will be closed during preliminary construction work on the Eglinton Crosstown LRT.
Route 32/307 EGLINTON WEST will divert in both directions via Eglinton Avenue, Caledonia Road, Castlefield Avenue, Roselawn Avenue, Marlee Avenue and Eglinton Avenue.
edmundoconnor
Active Member
I didn't want to derail the KW LRT thread with my thoughts on the public acceptance and possible embrace of LRT in the GTA. Here seems a more apposite place to continue my musings.
I have this sense that people in the GTA don't like LRT because they don't know it. They know streetcars, and don't like them. They know subways, and love them. I remember one pollster commenting on a Scarborough transit poll and say that people didn't like LRT because it was "alien" to them. They were unfamiliar with it, and had no real idea how it would work in practice because they had never seen one, much less ridden on one. Those in the GTA who had gone to places like Calgary and saw how useful the technology can be are, to put it brutally, statistically insignificant. This allows politicians like Ford to play on fears because the other side can't point to examples that most people have experienced. It requires a leap of faith. That's the bad news.
The good news is that when LRT is properly implemented, such as in Calgary, it can be a great success. People get used to the technology, like it, and start wondering why they can't get that for *their* neighbourhood. Calgary and Edmonton are expanding their LRTs, with the KW LRT likely to be expanded after launch. If properly implemented in a timely fashion, I think the Eglinton Crosstown can 'break down the door' on public acceptance of LRT, and people like Ford will be ultimately discredited as their hyped-up fears won't be matched by reality that people experience.
This is my first substantive post, and I hope it matches the level of elucidation I have seen here (for the most part). I am very excited about the possibilities of LRT, and I am very glad to find out I am not the only one. If it would speed things along, I would bring a pick and shovel and help construction myself, if I could.
I have this sense that people in the GTA don't like LRT because they don't know it. They know streetcars, and don't like them. They know subways, and love them. I remember one pollster commenting on a Scarborough transit poll and say that people didn't like LRT because it was "alien" to them. They were unfamiliar with it, and had no real idea how it would work in practice because they had never seen one, much less ridden on one. Those in the GTA who had gone to places like Calgary and saw how useful the technology can be are, to put it brutally, statistically insignificant. This allows politicians like Ford to play on fears because the other side can't point to examples that most people have experienced. It requires a leap of faith. That's the bad news.
The good news is that when LRT is properly implemented, such as in Calgary, it can be a great success. People get used to the technology, like it, and start wondering why they can't get that for *their* neighbourhood. Calgary and Edmonton are expanding their LRTs, with the KW LRT likely to be expanded after launch. If properly implemented in a timely fashion, I think the Eglinton Crosstown can 'break down the door' on public acceptance of LRT, and people like Ford will be ultimately discredited as their hyped-up fears won't be matched by reality that people experience.
This is my first substantive post, and I hope it matches the level of elucidation I have seen here (for the most part). I am very excited about the possibilities of LRT, and I am very glad to find out I am not the only one. If it would speed things along, I would bring a pick and shovel and help construction myself, if I could.
TFC
Active Member
Just to add to that comment, I think the one thing KW did right was compare the system they were hoping to build (back before the system was approved by council) to Portland, Calgary, Minneapolis. At a few open houses that I attended years ago for the KW LRT, a member of the public asked whether we were going to build a streetcar line, and the professionals were very quick to shoot that down and offer information and pictures of Calgary, Portland etc.
Back to the original topic, I believe that the Eglinton Crosstown will be able to show people that LRT is not a streetcar, despite the blabbering of retards like Rob Ford.
Back to the original topic, I believe that the Eglinton Crosstown will be able to show people that LRT is not a streetcar, despite the blabbering of retards like Rob Ford.
11th
Senior Member
The underground section, yes. The at-grade section, it depends how they will package it. St. Clair vs. viva vs. C-train/Confederation line stations . We keep saying LRT is not second class transit. But it looks like the at-grade sections in Toronto will be build to look like "second class" (tram stops).
edmundoconnor
Active Member
Has Metrolinx released renders of what the at-grade stops are going to look like? I've seen plenty on the underground stations, but only layouts of stops such as Ionview, for example (no renders). I think the stop will have some elements similar to a streetcar stop, but it is more going to be a question of a larger scale – it "feeling" like a station, not just a structure in the middle of the road. I have a feeling they are going to be more like the stops on Highway 7 than the ones on Spadina.
BMO
Senior Member
I think you're selling Torontonians far too short... As a planner, I'm so tired of people making excuses or acting like it's because people are uneducated. As history has shown us, even planners and engineers have been wrong in the past (Jane Jacobs). Sometimes people just like what they like
I had written a long-winding rant, but i'm so tired of this ongoing analysis of the "why" when talking about LRT's lack of acceptance in certain parts. Sometimes decisions DO have to be taken out of civilian hands and done in an un-biased and scientific manner. This is how it's done in many places around the world.
ehlow
Senior Member
Well, if you believe that any station without staff, elevators, escalators and fare gates is 2nd class, then yeah the surface stops are 2nd class by that definition.
At the risk of repeating what has probably been said 100 times, if you're looking at speed, frequency, reliability, a high quality ride and high levels of service, then LRT isn't 2nd class.
We don't really know what the stops will look like in detail yet, but it's true the surface stops aren't as elaborate as the underground ones. However, this also means they are much cheaper to build, operate and maintain.
salsa
Senior Member
I found these renderings of the Sheppard LRT a while ago, but I would imagine that Eglinton should be similar.
BMO
Senior Member
The VIVA BRT stations make these look horrible. Mind you, in Toronto they want to make the LRTs look as if they don't take up very much space, and in York Region they want to BRT to be very noticeable as a marketing technique to attract riders.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
If they had upgraded The Queensway section of the 501 Queen, that might showcase what direction they are going to. Unfortunately, they kept an unneeded South Kingsway stop, there is no true transit priority, and the eastern portion still has to be rebuilt.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
And the rendering implies that Sheppard East will be walkable with buildings up to the sidewalk.
edmundoconnor
Active Member
I'm also thinking that in York Region, they at least have an eye for potentially turning the dedicated ROWs into LRT, if the ridership could reasonably be thought to need such a capacity (they already have the stations and the ROWs, placing rails in the ROW would be comparatively quick). It would offer a reason why they are officially called "VIVA stations" instead of stops, and why the stations being used for BRT indulge in a little bit of architectural overkill, whereas for LRT, they just about fit the bill. Get the public thinking of a higher order of transit now, and changing it over to LRT down the line (15-20 years from now) isn't seen as such overkill. The planned stations on the Hurontario LRT aren't a million miles away from a VIVA station in terms of capacity and overall look.
This contrasts with Toronto. In Toronto, judging by the renders above, there is/was a certain timidity in showing that the LRT won't change anything at all, as if it's existing on sufferance, with the very real possibility of being yanked altogether. Which is true to a large extent, but there comes a time when you have to damn the torpedoes to a certain extent. A mode of mass transit shouldn't have to apologize for its existence, especially when its planners want it to be a success.
By the way, which stop is that meant to represent on Sheppard? I'm curious.
This contrasts with Toronto. In Toronto, judging by the renders above, there is/was a certain timidity in showing that the LRT won't change anything at all, as if it's existing on sufferance, with the very real possibility of being yanked altogether. Which is true to a large extent, but there comes a time when you have to damn the torpedoes to a certain extent. A mode of mass transit shouldn't have to apologize for its existence, especially when its planners want it to be a success.
By the way, which stop is that meant to represent on Sheppard? I'm curious.
