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Would you buy an EV from a Chinese OEM?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 11.5%

  • No

    Votes: 61 70.1%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 16 18.4%
  • Total voters
    87
rbt said:
Is that initial capital for setting up a new EV line or are they actually taking a loss on each unit manufactured? If the former, finances get magically better after a couple years.
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It shouldn't be a surprise that Rivian is burning cash. If the legacy automakers can't figure out how to turn a profit from EVs. Then what chance does a smaller company like Rivian have?
 
afransen said:
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Thanks. You still need 3-phase power which will restrict it to commercial/multi-residential settings.

I'd have to check (3-phase power is a little over my head) but I'm pretty sure the 3-phase line voltage in Canada is 600v, so 347v instead 277v line-neutral.
 
These are the phase-to-ground (ph-gd) and phase-to-phase (ph-ph) low voltage levels typically available in Ontario

120 Volts 1-phase ph-gd
120/208 Volts 3-phases, ph-gd/ph-ph
120/240 Volts typical single family residence supply, effectively 2-phases @ 180 degrees, ph-gd/ph-ph
277/480 Volts 3-phases, ph-gd/ph-ph
347/600 Volts 3-phases, ph-gd/ph-ph
 
Bojaxs said:
It shouldn't be a surprise that Rivian is burning cash. If the legacy automakers can't figure out how to turn a profit from EVs. Then what chance does a smaller company like Rivian have?
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As Tesla has shown, being a new entrant has substantial advantages. Legacy automakers are tied to legacy processes, costs and sales models. Rivian's real problem is that the market for large expensive EV trucks is limited. And so it's a race between their cash burning and ramping up cheaper models to bring them to profitability.
 
kEiThZ said:
I wasn't talking about fuel efficiency. On roadtrips, we easily get 700 km from our 45L tank.
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That seems low to me. With a traditional combustion engine and driving well over (125 to 130 generally) the speed where the car is efficient, I can do 500 km on an expressway before the fuel light comes on (perhaps more - I've only ever seen my fuel light once or twice). I'd hope that with a hybrid model, I'd be getting more of a gain than that. And if it was just regular driving - shouldn't a hybrid be getting near infinite mileage if you've got the chance to plug it in every night? Monthly fill-ups surprise me for city driving.

Fuel light seems to come on at about 18% to 20% full in my experience.
 
nfitz said:
Fuel light seems to come on at about 18% to 20% full in my experience.
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A friend of mine maintains that the fuel light was designed by lawyers and not by engineers, ie they are fairly conservative.

Somewhere I read that Ford's spec was tied to one-eighth of a tank.

- Paul
 
nfitz said:
shouldn't a hybrid be getting near infinite mileage if you've got the chance to plug it in every night?
Click to expand...
It's not a plug in.


nfitz said:
That seems low to me. With a traditional combustion engine and driving well over (125 to 130 generally) the speed where the car is efficient, I can do 500 km on an expressway before the fuel light comes on
Click to expand...

I find it varies quite a bit seasonally. On a good 20°C day, with my summer tires I can get 800-900 km till zero, at a low highway speed. Winter tires sub zero with no precipitation, I get 600-700 km. I've tracked about 180 000 km of driving on Fully and got 6.3L/100 km, majority of that in urban and suburban driving. So I use 700 km as my ballpark. Some things to keep in mind is that on paper the tank is 45L. Because of the way the tank is designed, I'm usually putting in 40-42L from empty. I have to really be careful topping it up to 45L. And it's an 11 yr old non-plug in hybrid sedan. I would assume newer models are much more efficient.

In any event, it's not the fuel efficiency I'm dissatisfied with. 6.3L/100km is still substantially more efficient than the average new vehicle today. On par with any compact sedan I could buy today. Decent for an 11 yr old car. It's the maintenance that I find annoying. Both in time and money. Still need oil changes. Still need to change hydraulic fluid, timing chains, spark plugs, engine sur filters, etc. An EV would basically reduce maintenance to cabin air filter and the brake system. Other consumables are the same.
 
crs1026 said:
A friend of mine maintains that the fuel light was designed by lawyers and not by engineers, ie they are fairly conservative.

Somewhere I read that Ford's spec was tied to one-eighth of a tank.

- Paul
Click to expand...

I think your friend puts much more thought into fuel lights than the manufacturers. On most vehicles, it is the Engine Control Module (computer) reading the fuel gauge (which is only marginally accurate to start with) and doing some math with the fuel metering.
 
crs1026 said:
In theory the idea of renting on a few occasions and saving the cost of owning a vehicle may seem like a no brainer - but show me people who actually do that. Rental is not really that convenient, even in urban centers. Try to find a rental agency that lets you get an early start out of town for the day, or return late in the evening. Zipcars and the like do exist but are not on every corner.
My spouse and I always planned that once retired we could downsize to a single vehicle. It hasn’t happened - if anything we have more need for two vehicles - and even with me being a transit nerd, I very much need a car. We did manage to move to one very small vehicle for short trips, and only one larger vehicle for longer runs. But the small vehicle is the one that doesn’t drive enough miles to make the ev price increment worth it.
Just a data base of one, perhaps, but among my neighbours, an EV is still more a statement than a trend.

- Paul
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I did it for 8 years, most of those with a kid. It was easy with Enterprise weekend deal + car2go + zipcar. I don't know the current situation in the city but it was definitely doable. It was especially great for those months when we never needed a car and I could see my total auto expense being $0.
 
I don't understand the fascination with range from full to empty for gas cars. It is unwise to drive down to fumes for a variety of reasons (including condensation in winter). I always filled my tank weekly regardless of how empty it was when I had a gas car.

The city really needs to get with the program for car share. Car share should be able to buy permits on residential streets, say up to 20% of the supply, and permits should be priced appropriately to allocate the remainder to residents.
 
TRONto said:
I did it for 8 years, most of those with a kid. It was easy with Enterprise weekend deal + car2go + zipcar. I don't know the current situation in the city but it was definitely doable. It was especially great for those months when we never needed a car and I could see my total auto expense being $0.
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Right now, the only rental car agency that stays open after 5-6 PM west of Keele Street is at the airport. Southern Etobicoke has exactly one Zipcar outlet, at Six points - the one on Bloor closed when the garage was demolished.

I suppose if one rented for the weekend there are probably good rental car deals, but that's still a bit inflexible on Sunday evenings.

- Paul
 
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