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Should Finch have been tunnelled as a full subway?
No, it should have been elevated down the median of Finch Avenue. The binary between tunneled and on-street running is completely arbitrary and has poisioned discusions of transit expansion in Toronto for over two decades now. Can we please move past it? I'll even buy you a ticket to Vancouver just to ride the skytrain 😂
 
No, it should have been elevated down the median of Finch Avenue. The binary between tunneled and on-street running is completely arbitrary and has poisioned discusions of transit expansion in Toronto for over two decades now. Can we please move past it? I'll even buy you a ticket to Vancouver just to ride the skytrain 😂
Between Keele and Bathurst, the Finch West LRT could be elevated. Between Bathurst and Yonge, the Finch West LRT could be tunnelled.
 
Between Keele and Bathurst, the Finch West LRT could be elevated. Between Bathurst and Yonge, the Finch West LRT could be tunnelled.
You cannot seriously be arguing this essentially rural road requires a tunnel bored subway. The right of way of Finch between Bathurst and Yonge never narrows below 20m (ish), welllll beyond any reasonable expectation of width to facilitate elevated transit.
With the new Major Streets up zoning coming into affect should this so irritate homeowners who have decided to live on a five lane arterial, they can easily sell to a developer, who can then build a 6 st midrise as of right. Everybody wins.
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Finch should have been an Edmonton/Stadtbahn style high floor LRT with crossing guards and a higher-protection ROW to allow for 70-80km/h speeds.

Eglinton Crosstown should have been a cut and cover Toronto Gauge subway with an elevated section in Scarborough.
If we are taking transit inspiration from Edmonton, I think it's time for me to start planning my move.
 
You cannot seriously be arguing this essentially rural road requires a tunnel bored subway. The right of way of Finch between Bathurst and Yonge never narrows below 20m (ish), welllll beyond any reasonable expectation of width to facilitate elevated transit.
At most you grade separate the 500 metres from Doris to Beecroft.

How deep is the Yonge line there? Could the LRT fit underground, but above the Yonge platforms?
 
At most you grade separate the 500 metres from Doris to Beecroft.

How deep is the Yonge line there? Could the LRT fit underground, but above the Yonge platforms?
Afaik that was the actual plan. At least that's what I recall being shared here a few years ago.
 
No. There is not the development on Finch for a subway and there wont be for a very long time, or ever.

At least not for 50 years, and then at that time the tunnels, trains, track and everything will need a full refurbishment, and you're basically spending tons of money again for something to be built way too early.

Honestly this should have been BRT like in Newmarket.

The way we built LRT with the Transit City project is completely a waste of money and at odds with how good LRT systems around the world are built. Crosstown is an exception because much of it is tunneled.

Putting LRT in the middle of the road like a streetcar completely hampers its speed, and puts riders at risk when crossing and leaving the island stations. We basically cannot look past how we did streetcars and not mimic that with LRT.

Look at Calgary, Edmonton, Seattle, Portland, Denver, Los Angeles etc etc LRT and you will see how LRT is built properly. Even Ottawa LRT is done better, but it was done so well, it should have been a Metro system. ION LRT is another good example.

All the aforementioned LRT systems use dedicated rights of ways, whether abandoned rail corridors, hydro corridors, closing off small streets and making them completely car free and dedicated to LRT. etc etc. The LRTs are much more separated from vehicular traffic and intersections.

Thats not really possible along Finch (well, you could use the Finch Hydro corridor but its a bit far away and problematic) and so when its not possible to do something like this, smarter minds would say "well it doesnt make sense to use LRT here, BRT would be a way better ROI"

But LRT was all the rage in the 2000's so we forced a square peg in a round hole. The fact that EVERY line in Transit City was LRT is all the proof you need. Its rare that every single line in a 7 line system has the exact same transit type, as there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

What do you think ION LRT does well that Finch LRT doesn’t? Much of it is centre running, slow, and with frequent intersections with car traffic. You cite VIVA BRT, which uses centre island platforms you call dangerous for an LRT.
 
Neat rhetorical trick, choosing one that no one can disprove.

There are zero comparison points right now except for the Crosstown, which is primarily underground and had already been in the works for 8 years when the Finch line started construction. Maybe stick to the facts instead of thinking that typing in alternating case letters is an argument.

I'm just going to leave this video here as my official response.

 
I'm just going to leave this video here as my official response.

It's a well made video, but what's the main point that you're trying to make with posting it?
To me the major takeaway is simply the constant shifting of transit plans going back nearly 100 years.
Also, I don't think the guy adjusted for inflation in his cost/km figures, which makes his comparison chart a bit useless.
 
It's a well made video, but what's the main point that you're trying to make with posting it?
To me the major takeaway is simply the constant shifting of transit plans going back nearly 100 years.
Also, I don't think the guy adjusted for inflation in his cost/km figures, which makes his comparison chart a bit useless.
IMG_6590.jpeg

Please read carefully. The charts are inflation adjusted.

The point here isn’t just that transit plans have changed over time. It’s that our reactionary approach to cost control, constantly cutting the scope of projects at the expense of transportation utility, hasn’t produced lower costs at all. The dogmatic belief that “LRT is always cheaper than subway” completely ignores the actual reasons behind cost escalation and has resulted in poorer material outcomes.
 
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