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trtcttc said:
This case is far more complicated and isn't true that privatization = bad, the county shoulder at least equal blame.
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Thanks for your detailed knowledge!

Also, hooray, the feedermain is open for business and restrictions have been lifted! I've already had a long-overdue shower.
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Mountain Man said:
Why? the McKnight main broke in 2004 when Bronconnier was mayor. The UCP are just trying to score points against their rival and I have seen very little from them to suggest anything other than a major bias.
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Bronconnier was Mayor for 6 years of the post 2004 period, Nenshi for 11, so he is ~2X as responsible
 
YYCInfraObserver said:
Why should the city have taken the cash and run? From all intents and purposes, Enmax has been successful for the City - $1.5 bn in dividends since '98, and still under City control. Don't want this to become a Chicago parking metre situation...
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How much debt has Enmax taken on in that period? How much as Enmax distracted the City from other services? How much risk has Enmax added to city finances if, for example, its US foray does bad?
 
DougB said:
How much debt has Enmax taken on in that period? How much as Enmax distracted the City from other services? How much risk has Enmax added to city finances if, for example, its US foray does bad?
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Enmax is owned by the city but has its own executive team and board of directors. The city has very little day-to-day input so not really sure what there is to distract from.

Taken another way, how much upside has Enmax added to city finances? With the substantial increase in energy demand from AI (not sure if Enmax is positioned to benefit), they could make much more money. If the dividends substantially increase, the city would have better services! One can argue that the city shouldn't want the risk or the upside, but it's not downside only.
 
trtcttc said:
Enmax is owned by the city but has its own executive team and board of directors. The city has very little day-to-day input so not really sure what there is to distract from.

Taken another way, how much upside has Enmax added to city finances? With the substantial increase in energy demand from AI (not sure if Enmax is positioned to benefit), they could make much more money. If the dividends substantially increase, the city would have better services! One can argue that the city shouldn't want the risk or the upside, but it's not downside only.
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The comparison if you think savings and dividends makes sense is whether investing in the TSX or S&P 500 would have provided better returns.

Could even benchmark against the utilities index (since price integrates implied future dividends I don't think we need to visualize those on top)
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darwink said:
The comparison if you think savings and dividends makes sense is whether investing in the TSX or S&P 500 would have provided better returns.

Could even benchmark against the utilities index (since price integrates implied future dividends I don't think we need to visualize those on top)
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I'm sure it might, better diversification of risk, I don't disagree on the financial points. But similar to buying a house vs renting and investing. Sure the second option might come out ahead, but politicians, citizens, people are not always disciplined, and very likely that "investment" doesn't make it 30 years like the house might. Having Enmax be a physical entity, where they have to privatize to sell, vs simple shares of an investment, makes it far less likely for the city to sell that asset for short term gains.
 
trtcttc said:
makes it far less likely for the city to sell that asset for short term gains.
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Enmax sold half of the Shepard Energy Centre to shore up its books. I didn't see anyone complaining. Enmax could sell or lease all of its assets and still exist as a hold co. I don't think there is any difference.
 
darwink said:
Enmax sold half of the Shepard Energy Centre to shore up its books. I didn't see anyone complaining. Enmax could sell or lease all of its assets and still exist as a hold co. I don't think there is any difference.
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Sell the all of the non-local distribution related assets and invest the proceeds
 
DougB said:
Can't do anything to politically to Bronconnier. Nenshi is still accountable to the electorate
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Yet its been demonstrated quite clearly that council was poorly informed on all of this.

I'm sure you'll be frothing at the mouth just the same when Danielle Smith fails to do anything about the healthcare crisis - and we know for sure that she's been informed of the 6 avoidable deaths in the last fortnight due to her governments malicious incompetence.
 
lemongrab said:
Yet its been demonstrated quite clearly that council was poorly informed on all of this.

I'm sure you'll be frothing at the mouth just the same when Danielle Smith fails to do anything about the healthcare crisis - and we know for sure that she's been informed of the 6 avoidable deaths in the last fortnight due to her governments malicious incompetence.
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Healthcare is a mess across Canada. Alberta metrics are middle of the pack. What is Danielle Smith supposed to do? Funding has increased far in excess of inflation plus population growth for decades
 
DougB said:
Healthcare is a mess across Canada. Alberta metrics are middle of the pack. What is Danielle Smith supposed to do? Funding has increased far in excess of inflation plus population growth for decades
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Infrastructure is falling apart across Canada. Calgary's pipe failed at 50 years, far ahead of the 100 year design life. Everyone complains Nenshi raised property taxes when he was mayor, what else is he supposed to do? City infrastructure budget has increased in excess of inflation plus population growth.

I don't think you can blame the pipe breaking apart on any mayor, unless it was something they intentionally didn't address despite repeated warnings. I don't think there is evidence of that. Sure it may be in some report, but in any given year, there's countless reports saying things need to be replaced. It wasn't like the city was warning council repeatedly this pipe is about to fail. If they did, they wouldn't have had to source the pipe from San Diego last summer. Have to judge them on how they handle the hand they are dealt. Nenshi the 2013 floods and the pipe breaks under Gondek and Farkas. Farkas (so far) has been far better than Gondek imo, with the regular updates on repair progress, drone videos, etc.
 
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